Zab. Tszyu does, IMO. Judah may be more physically gifted with his speed and athleticism but Tszyu was a better boxer. He was a pinpoint boxer who threw short accurate punches, and had terrific timing and sense of distance. His performance against Tackie was a better display of skillful boxing than I've ever seen Judah put on. He had a weak chin and psyche, crap defense, and his skills were only decent anyway. He's a lazy fighter with no passion. He probably spent too long in the ammys anyway. Because he was a tough, strong, determined guy. And his skills weren't bad, either. Charles. What's your point? Marciano may have beaten him but Charles is generally regarded historically as the greater fighter all-time anyway. He has a superior resume to Marciano. One of Ali's weaknesses (left hook vulnerability) played into one of Frazier's biggest strengths. Frazier wasn't exactly a skill-less guy himself, and Ali had a huge heart just like Joe did.
That's a great post erratic! I agree with all of it but do have one question concerning Grant, you claim "He had a weak chin and psyche, crap defense, and his skills were only decent" I understand the chin, psyche (heart?), crap defense, but skills is what we are talking about here and you said his were only decent, so I ask, did you claim or know this pre Lewis fight? I remember most thinking Grant was "IT".
Hence what I said originally, if a fighter has talent but no heart (lack motivation) they are shit. If a fighter has heart but not much skilled they are a good fighter (Gatti, Ward, Coralles, etc.). If a fighter has talent and heart they are a great fighter (Ali, Floyd, SRR, etc. etc.). You guys seem to think Ward has more heart than Floyd, how so? I don't see it that way at all. Determination is what makes a person great! If you don't believe that than you've already lost.
and so what exactly makes u think Mike Tyson wasn't determined? That fresh prime motivated Mike Tyson that fought Thomas, Holmes, Spinks, etc. hell even the one that fought Razor Ruddock and Holyfield would obliterate Marciano. all the determination in the world wouldn't let LaMotta beat Robinson 5 times, and all the determination marciano would muster could get him to the 3rd round, maybe.
Mike was determined, I'm not saying he wasn't, but what happens when Rocky lands an elbow or a strong right hand? Does Mike do what Mike's done his entire career? Buster took no shit from Mike and look what happened? Evander took no shit from Mike and look what happened? Mike himself has said several times that he hated fighting and there's strong evidence that what he said is true throughout his entire career. Rocky's never been seriously hurt in 49 heavyweight fights and yet he's not going to make it past the 3rd round against a guy who's known to have trouble when someone doesn't get ko'd right away? We can say Rocky's too small and just dismiss it at that however how could we explain Ali having so much trouble with Jones, or Louis having trouble with Conn, or Liston having trouble with Marshall, etc. Whenever we talk about all time matchups it's always a good fight except when it comes to Rocky, he always gets dismissed early except by experts. I guess if it's all about size then we could easily say a guy like Lewis would KO Tyson within 3 rounds if he's lucky enough to make it that far correct?
Jones troubled Ali with Pressure, Conn troubled Louis with movement, et. Marciano CANT force Tyson to fight off his back foot like Holyfeidl and Douglas did because he's fucking 185lbs, how hard is that to understand. Kely Pavlik beat Miranda for alot of reasons, and one of them was the way he forced Miranda to the ropes, and into a position that he couldn't fight from. You think one right hand from a 185lb guy is gonna rock Tyson so much. He kept coming forward against LENNOX LEWIS after taking hundreds of shots, and not even cruiserweight Marciano is gonna rock his psyche? Thats just a fucking stupid argument. Styles make fights, and stylistically Tyson would MURDER Marciano. As to ur crap about marciano never being hurt, he sure w dropped by 40 year old fellow light-heavyweights/cruiserweights. If u can't see that those kind of punches from Tyson would hurt/KO him then you've being severely unreasonable
Marciano is the greatest bum of all-time. He got put on queer street by a senior citizen Jersey Joe Walcott. Marciano made his name by beating near-40 year old fighters. I can't believe how overrated this bum is. An in prime Chris Byrd would've beat Marciano by late stoppage or blow out decision.
Rocky was dropped for 2 seconds against a HALL OF FAMER. Ali was nearly KNOCKED OUT by 185lb Henry Cooper. Sonny Liston had his jaw broken and lost to 180lb Marshall but of course that is all different correct? Of course it's different, difference being Rocky went down by a hall of famer whereas Liston and Ali went down by virtual nobodies and so what do we do? Dismiss Rocky of course.
That Hall of famer had kidney stones and two bad knees going into that fight. He was also near his 40s. Marciano was a bum.
this is complete bias. I'm claiming that Tyson would brutalize Marciano because of his abilities and style. What the fuck do Liston and Ali have to do with Tyson? A 185lb fighter with poor defense and slow movement would not beat Mike Tyson in 10000000 tries
So beating an old man with health problems is a great accomplishment? :dunno: That only proves how much of a bum Marciano was.
That's usually what someone says when they can't address a valid point. :clap: Marciano's bum status is confirmed.
Rocky Marciano wins UNDISPUTED heavyweight title from hall of famer. Rocky Marciano defends UNDISPUTED heavyweight title 6 times. Rocky Marciano defeats 4 hall of fame fighters Rocky Marciano retires with a PERFECT record of 49-0. Name all the other bums who've accomplished this. Like I said, guess we're done here......
Rocky beat an old hall of famer with health problems. That's like giving credit to Joey Archer for beating Ray Robinson. Many heavyweights have defended the undisputed title for 6+ times and against younger competition. Walcott and Moore were in their or near their 40s. Being 49-0 doesn't mean much when you're fighting bums and old men. It's too bad Marciano didn't stick around for another year because Floyd Patterson would've destroyed this bum. Then we wouldn't have shitty threads like this. School is out.
Is that even english? John Ruiz has fought and beat better competition than Marciano and he is the king of Heavyweight bums.
If Ruiz fought the old men Marciano did he would be undefeated and undisputed. You know in boxing, competition matters right?
Dumbest post ever !!!! I have no problem when people discredit or talk about how or why Marciano would lose but , this post is out right stupid ... Marciano's victories over Walcott X2 , Charles X2 , Archie Moore , Joe Louis and others are as credible or even more credible then Tyson's victory over Spinks and near 38 year old fat Larry Holmes ... Yeah , you could say Marciano's victories over fellow greats happend when they were past prime but look at Tyson's 2 notable victories. Larry was near 38 and was so out of shape his belly hung over his boxing trunks. Spinks was like 32 and showing age and slipping after moving up to heavyweight from 175lbs. Tyson was his last fight. Tyson lost to any other elite fighter he faced ...
So beating an old man so out of shape that his belly hung over past the waste line of his boxing trunks is supposed to be a better accomplishment ??? :dunno:
38 year old Holmes had 10 pounds, 8 inches in reach, and 4-5 inches of height over Tyson. That Holmes would bloody and stop Bum-King Marciano.
I guess you can throw in 38 year old Larry Holmes into that mix as well. Thats near 40 isn't it ? :: You are stupid ! Yeah , Glass jaw Patterson who has been down more times then any heavyweight in history would have beat KO artist Marciano ... Can we say Zoo/Judah - because thats what this fight would have turned out like ....
And Archie Moore has more knock outs then any other fighter from all weight classes that ever lived in the history of boxing ... Also saying Holmes had 10 pounds and 8 inches of reach over Tyson is stupid ... Almost everyone of Rocky's opponents had the very same advantage over him ... Also 10 pounds ?? Bro his belly hung over his boxing trunks .....::
Holmes fought on for 15 more years including bouts where he beat Ray Mercer, and was competitive against Oliver McCall, and Evander Holyfield. Walcott, Louis, Charles, and Moore were done as fighters by the time Marciano got to them. Holmes didn't make his career fighting bums, Marciano was an old man/bum destroyer. Patterson was too quick, and hit too hard for Marciano. He also beat Moore much more impressively than Marciano who struggled.
:: :: Yeah , just like the equally skilled Walcott , Moore , Charles and Louis did .... Have you seen any of these fights ??? Or are you just talking out of your ass ? Honestly
Walcott, Moore, Charles, and Louis were very capable fighters in their prime, just very old and shot by the time they fought Marciano.
And fuckin Moore fought 42 more times losing only 3 fights one of which he avenged to fellow hall of famers ... After Marciano was when he had the now imfamous fights with Durelle ... Moore was the World Light Heavyweight title holder and defended several times long after he fought Marciano ... Did Holmes ever recapture a title ? Don't even go there ! Don't even start who did more after the fact Moore/Marciano or Holmes/Tyson because you will be fighting a losing argument ....
