MARQUEZ vs. VASQUEZ III...

Actually Juan Diaz has had issues with his people that is a fact. :dunno: In the end Manny is fighting the best as he typically does. period. he is taking pity upon JMM and giving him a big fight. No need for him to become a complete charity case and giving boring ass Guzman a shot to. When Manny beat MAB and Morales they were still top guys in that division. Maybe not the best but in the top few.

 

pity?

JMM and Manny are 1 and 2 at 130 and most have JMM in the top pfp list along with Manny.


stop acting like Manny is fighting 3k battery or velasquez or one of them bums he was fighting a while back. ::

 

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I would pick Velasquez over a Terdsak while we are on the topic of bums. Yes pity, if Pac don't fight JMM what is he going to do? A Terdsak rematch?

 

your missing the point. your using pacquiao's options as an excuse not to fight the best.

He is fighting JMM because he is the best at 130 and of the best boxers period.


and no Velasquez wouldn't beat Terdsak. Velasquez is a fucking stiff. ::

 

Velasquez has a pretty good win recently over Santiago. A much bigger win than anything Terdsak has done. My point is if you think Manny is fighting bums, JMM has fought plenty as well. My other point of course was he can fight the best without bothering with JMM. Why? Because he has those options. Not that it matters he's fighting JMM anyways. Not sure why because personally the way JMM ran his mouth I wouldn't have given him the payday. You came into this thread saying JMM is better than Pacquiao with nothing to back it up. That is where this whole debate came from in the first place.

 

I do think he is better. You asked me based on what? competition or head to head? I told you already told you how I saw their first fight go and comparing the skill wise.

You made it a point to compare carreers. I have never said JMM's carrer is better than Mannys. :dunno:

but he has gotten overrated the last two years and there is a big difference in fighting the best in your division to Prove your the best then to beat older guys who used to be the best.

Now you go to the extreme acting like this JMM rematch is some other shitty tune up for Manny when you know how most people see this long awaited rematch.

you disklike JMM so much that you think he still hasn't accomplished shit. If that was the case people wouldn't be screaming for this rematch all of these years.

 

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Screaming for this rematch? I don't think I would go that far. I don't make JMM out to be a bum. He's a good fighter but the truth is for him to get paid well he needs to fight other big names. That is why he wanted to fight Pacquiao afterall. You point out skills, I point out talent. manny has more talent and a better career I am not sure how that makes JMM "better". The first fight certainly didn't prove him to be better he was lucky to escape with the draw as it was.

BTW- Isn't 1 of those "old guys" JMM's best win in his career? :dunno: In fact if you think JMM is the champion at 130, how did he get that distinction? Wasn;t it by beating 1 of those "old guys"?

 

I just saw the two fights for the first time (yes, it's true), and I'd say there very much was a difference between the way Vazquez fought.

In the first fight, Vazquez tried to shuffle and maneuver his way onto the inside, allowing Marquez the chance to step around him and beat him to the punch.

In the rematch, Vazquez basically charged in behind his jab and rushed Marquez into close quarters, with almost reckless abandon, before Marquez had a chance to step around or get off. It was a riskier way to fight (and resulted in those cuts around Vazquez's eyes), but it paid off because Marquez wasn't ready for it and really didn't have an answer for it.

It also looked to me like maybe Marquez wasn't in the same shape as in the first fight (his punches looked a bit slower and less sharp IMO, and he looked a little chunky around the middle IMO), which would also explain why he fell apart so quickly. In fact, I think BOTH fighters were surprised by how the other guy fought in those fights... I think Vazquez was surprised that Marquez was able to keep up a long range boxing match for as long as he did in the first fight, and Marquez was surprised by Vazquez's sudden, bull-rushing attack in the second.

 

Oooooops!!!...


REED

 

Pacquiao would destroy Guzman anyways. It might take a helluva an effort on his part, but he wouldn't be denied. He'd punish him on the ropes and possibly afflict permanent damage because he'd find himself in a position of possibly losing after about 5 rounds, at which point he'd lose grasp of his sanity and go homicidal on the poor Dominican.

 

Marquez wins this rubbermatch because he is the better, more versatile and more well rounded fighter.

Rafael Marquez TKO 10 Vazquez in a fight that is just as exciting as the first two....leaving fans calling for a fourth one.:bears:

 

Vasquez wins this rubbermatch because he is the better, more versatile and more well rounded fighter.

Israel Vasquez TKO 10 Marquez in a fight that is just as exciting as the first two....leaving fans calling for a fourth one.:bears:

 

I'll take Vasquez by mid-late stoppage, though I do so with little conviction, to be honest. This is one of those where the more I think about it, the more I cannot decide who I favour and why... :dunno:

 

Vasquez UD

 

Honestly this fight is a toss up. Both guys can pop and both guys can box. Both have stopped each other already.

I guess most believe that VAzquez has the momentum as his should. I think Marquez will turn it around and stop Vazquez again. either way it will be an awesome fight.

Marquez UD!


IN a few weeks I will make the same prediction :blobbox:

 

Vasquez KO 9 knocking Marquez into his brothers lap.

 

the Marquez brothers never go to each other's fights :nono:

 

That's the great part about it.

BTW- I am pretty sure they fought on the same card before so that's not true..

 

I meant they don't go watch each other by choice. when they fought on the same card they had to watch each other.


who do you give more of a chance at the upset? JMM or Rafa? against Vazquez and Pacquiao opcorn:

 

Well, look at my bet thread. I am sure you can figure it out :tease: I pick Juan Marquez to win, I don't pick his brother. Although to be fair Rafa has a chance with the scar tissue all over Vasquez's face. Still, he took a pretty good pounding at points in the rematch and his legs didn't recover right. Can't pick Rafa this fight although I am not saying he has no chance. Vasquez is the clear favorite though.

 

you picked JMM against Pacquiao the first time and ended up hating him.::

you spent the next 4 years trashing him and saying how Manny would stretch him in a rematch.

now you pick JMM against Manny again? go figure:dunno: ::

whatever happened to the theory that Manny got better over the years and JMM just got older? opcorn:

 

I've always hated JMM big deal:dunno: As someone who gambles that never gets in the way of what I bet. As for me saying Pacquiao would bash JMM in a rematch? When? I have said I thought Pacquiao won the first fight, I have said I think Pacquiao has had the better career. What I never said is that he would bash JMM in a rematch.

 

Agreed.

opcorn:

 

I want Raf to win but ima go with Vasquez. Usually the guy who wins the second fight of the trilogy wins the 3rd.

 

Vazquez KO 9

LATIN KING - I'm not sure about Val, but I maintained for a good while that Pacman got overconfident and left hand happy in the first fight, that's he's only improved since then, and would KO Marquez in the rematch.

However I have changed my mind due to the fact that Pacman has quite simply lost his hunger. I don't think he is REALLY into boxing like he was before, and you've seen in his last few fights, he's not the same hungry whirlwind beast he was before.

Especially with all the politician, lawyer bullshit, and the Barrera rematch he was content to just let it be a sparring session. That's not the Pacman of old, the Pacman that made me a fan.

But anyway, I tentatively pick Pacman by decision. But I would not be in the least bit surprised if Marquez won.

 

Vazquez TKO 10 or 11.

It's not that Vazquez is bigger...Rafa has always been a very big bantamweight and looks great at 122.

It's that Vazquez is just too determined, too powerful and too precise with his short shots. He just comes forward with too much pressure and that will grind down, wear down and eventually stop Rafael; who really is an offensive machine and is boxing well - but doesn't move his head and whose body is there to be hit.

Plus, I think Vazquez is the more "mentally relentless" of the two...I don't think Israel will accept defeat on this one (unless it's by cuts).

I think Marquez will box brilliantly and really stick his jab and use his legs, look to counter and keep distance.

It will be tit-for-tat in the early and middle rounds.

Israel won't be far behind, because he has become more saavy in his recent fights, especially under Rudy Perez's guidance. His jab is more of a factor (and he can reach Rafa with it); he is moving his head more, weaving, parrying and countering.

So Rafa may have a slight edge and may have some great rounds, but I expect Isra to be "coming on" with that sense of inevitability. Even if he gets rocked.

I think Vazquez will really target the body early and often - and when he finally gets Rafa to fight his short, heavy, sharp shots inside will be doing alot of damage even though Rafa's will be more obvious and "dazzling."

By the 8th or 9th Rafa's legs and body will start to tell.

TKO late in the 10th or 11th.

Peace.

 

Vazquez´face doesn´t last that long. I think that will be what it comes down to. His face was a bloody bloody mess in the rematch, that lasted what? Six or seven rounds? No way it holds up against Marquez for 11 rounds. Of course it will depend on the doctor/referee a bit.

 

Thats one of the reasons i wanna pic Raf. He is gonna hit Israel for sure he is the better defensive fighter and his face cuts pretty easy. Problem is is that Israel is a bigger puncher.

 

I´m not sure who to pick, slightly favour the stronger, fresher and arguably bigger puncher in Vazquez, but the 3.8 for 1 on Rafa by KO are very tempting, simply because Marquez always has a chance to flat out KO any guy or force a cut stoppage.

 

I bet Vasquez for one reason. In their previous fights I don't know that Marquez ever really stunned Israel with a punch. Obviously the nose deal in the first fight led to Vasquez quiting, but I don't know that Isreal has actually been dazed or clearly stunned by Marquez.

On the other hand, Vasquez knocked Marquez down in the first fight and stunned him on several other occasions. And in the 2nd fight Vasquez was able to hurt him bad enough to force a stoppage.

I think through the first 2 fights we clearly know which guys punch has the most effect on the other. I'd be shocked if that didn't happen in the third fight as well.

All that being said, if Israel gets all cut and busted up to the point of being stopped, then I'm out $100.