Marvin Hagler vs Joe Calzaghe at 168lbs

dude, don't be so simple

Duran had been fighting since he was 16, he had twice at many pro fights by 33 than Calzaghe and against a vastly superior level of opposition

If you think Calzaghe should ever be mentioned in the same paragraph as Duran, you are overcompensating at best

 

There is no difference between the middleweight reign of Hopkins and the 168 reign of Calzaghe. It's either they're both shit or they're both very good, you can't lift up one and kick the other, so get out of here with that "not very good" shit

 

Calzaghe is unfairly underrated on this forum. he was a very very good fighter: speed, stamina, heart, decent whiskers and decent power, smarts, elusiveness....and all proven talents by his undefeated record.

Sure, he never fought a prime Jones or Hopkins....but he did beat capable guys like Lacy, Eubank and Kessler. If Calzaghe was the bum that you guys suggest...at least one of those three would have beaten him (especially Eubank).

 

The truth is out there

MTF :bears:

 

In all seriousness, Hut and CDogg- you guys really do underrate Calzaghe like crazy.

I know most of you here have me down as THE Calzaghe fan on this site but for a long, long time I couldn't stand the bloke and in many respects I still can't. He seems to me to be a nob of the highest order. But he's a damn good fighter.

You can pick through his record and point out a number of stiffs and a lack of truly great wins, but it isn't his fault that 168 died a death just as he came into his own. All you can do is go on the evidence as presented and the evidence is that he only came close to losing a grand total of twice in forty-odd fights in two weight divisions. He is called 'Slappy' yet he knocked Eubanks on his arse, busted RJJ's face, made Lacy look like he'd been hit by a bus and he left Kessler a bruised and battered mess. He had tremendous re-cooperative powers: the Jones punch which knocked him down was near enough a forearm smash, yet Joe was up at three when most would have been out for days...

More tellingly, though, he showed on numerous occassions that he was one of the most adaptable fighters of his generation- the most impressive thing I saw from him was the way he changed, mid-fight, against Kessler. I had Kessler 4-2 up after six in that fight and Joe was getting tagged hard. He swept the next five rounds by simply changing the angle of attack and making Kessler miss.

Only the best fighters have that type of gear change in them IMHO.

MTF

 

Calzaghe is 'very good'. Very good fighter. Outstanding champion. Not on the Marvin Hagler level.

He isn't much worse than Hopkins, but Hopkins is better. A couple of years earlier Hopkins would have beat him; he came damn close as was.

 

Then why didn't Hopkins fight him? Also, you seem to forget (or ignore) that Calzaghe was himself one fight away from retirement when he beat Hopkins. And lets be honest here- Calzaghe beat Hopkins handily enough. Fuck me: Bernard was trying to get Calzaghe DQ-ed long before the end of that fight...

MTF :nono:

 

On the night of the fight I scored it for Calzaghe. Joe was just flurrying and dry humping and doing busy work - it was a million miles from impressive. He only won because he could maintain a far higher pace.

Calzaghe was pretty much as good as he ever was at that point. If you're picking a 'prime' Calzahe you're picking the one who fought Lacy and Kessler. If you're picking a prime Hopkins you'd have to go back 6, 7+ years at least. Their primes both came upon them pretty late.

 

Who ever looks impressive against Bernard? Even a young Roy, who beat Hopkins clearer than anyone else ever did and is unquestionably 'great', looked less than his stellar best when he fought Hopkins.

Besides, Hopkins may well have been 'past prime' whenever that was, but it was he who decided not to fight Calzaghe in 2003 when the terms had been agreed for that fight. He never cops any of the shit for that decision, though :dunno: And he didn't look too bad when he dismantled an unbeaten, unified champion in Pavlik a year later than the Calzaghe fight, did he?

MTF

 

Excuse me, I meant to say 'on the night I scored it to Hopkins'. As did most of the British press reports I read the next day, as I recall.

And no he didn't look bad fighting the low volume, one paced slugging Pavlik. Styles, my good man, styles. If you let Hops dictate a slow pace he'll still beat good fighters until he's 100 years old, but that's not the way guys like Taylor or Calzaghe fight - they're force-the-issue volume guys.

 

Actually Joe was similar skill wise when he was younger, PRE Lacy, but quicker and had more snap in his shots.

There is no doubt Joe wasn't as good as he once was even when he fought Kessler etc.

Hopkins slowed down, but Hopkins' craft continued to grow, he became craftier and craftier, still retained good speed and strength, which enabled him to compete into his 40's.

Joe would have beaten pretty much any version of Hopkins.

If you remember Hut Hut, I used to HATE Calzaghe, I used to root for everyone to beat him, even Germans.

And I've always liked Hopkins.

But I've come to realise Calzaghe is an excellent fighter. He looks beatable, yet is very, very hard to beat.

His workrate, handspeed, and use of range/footwork does very well against Hopkins, and if the fight happened 5 years earlier, with both of them 5 years fresher, I'd still pick Joe.

I scored the fight 9 to 3 by the way. Hopkins swept the first 3 rounds easy and looked on his way to another schooling, then Joe found his rhythm and range and won every remaining round. The rest of the fight was Hopkins doing almost nothing, getting outworked, then being a total and utter bitch and trying to get Joe DQ'd.

A few years earlier the fight would have been a bit closer, but still a clear win for Joe.

 

Well I'll just have to agree to disagree with the rest of my indoctrinated UK brethren then.:: Calzaghe is one recently retired top fighter I don't miss one bit.

 

Me neither. Calzaghe isn't really the type of fighter to get excited about, but he is a fucking hard man to beat, simple as that.

Not particularly likeable or exciting, but an excellent fighter.

 

:giggle:

Calzaghe wasn't particularly likable (aside from the Lacy fight, i was always rooting against him) but he was a damned good fighter. Hagler, far more accomplished, likable and exciting...but head to head would have lost.

 

When the rising computer overlord comes to power, I'll bet you a fiver Hagler beats him.
:hammert:

 

Andre Ward is living off of a win over Calz's left overs.

Other then that Ward has done nothing besides go the distance with a washed up Miranda, and that bum Green.

 

Hagler stops him in the mid-rounds. Two different classes of fighter.

 

Calzaghe's comp is positively inferior to Hagler's in every respect... its not even debateable

Calzaghe benefited from a shit division and won by outslapping his crap competition... the fact that he slapped successfully for a long time and managed to retire undefeated makes him very good... but he does not make him a fighter who resides on the same planet as a Marvin Hagler

 

'Leftovers'?

Kessler is a young man who'd only been in exactly ONE really hard fight prior to Ward. He then beat Froch in his next fight. Kessler still had all his food on the plate. :: Stop talking nonsense.

Ward beat him far more easily and more convincingly. I actually think Ward is a better fighter than Calzaghe. As time goes on that will become clearer.

 

You'll see how good Ward is when it's Chunky O'clock and De Gale beats the shit out of him. Ward don't want it man.

 

Well, to be fair he's not talking that much nonsense.

Kessler hasn't looked the same since the Calzaghe fight (for whatever reason, no necessarily because Joe ruined him etc). Even Kessler fans see this.

Ward is not a better fighter than Calzaghe, over time this shall become clear.

 

The thing is, when Calzaghe was Ward's age, he wouldn't have signed on for the Super Six or fought a guy like Kessler.

 

Calzaghe yells at Hagler to "Fight me like a man bitch!" to which Hagler responds with a smirk on his face and says "NOOOOOPE!"

 

Really? Here was me thinking that a legend like Bernard Hopkins ran like a cowardly bitch from Joe Calzaghe. And then when he got round to fighting him, Hopkins cried like a cunt and tried to get Joe DQ-ed.

Funny that...

MTF