Mayweather hesitating with Mosley

So it isn't about whether a guy has a record of steroid use, or whether there is evidence necessary to run a smear campaign against the other, its about following through with Mayweather's steroid testing demands.

And people are defending this guy?

 

I don't understand your problem with asking for extra testing. Boxing's drug testing methods is worse than the MLB.

 

Did I just read that the PBF/Mosley fight is signed and ready to go May 1st. If you can't get 1A then I will settle for 1A-. I'll Holla 5000

 

I have no problem with asking for extra testing. To accuse a guy of steroid use, and then play hardball in negotiations is fine. You don't wanna be cheated by your opponent, maybe you want things on your terms. Great fighters throughout history have done that.

But you can't get high and mighty, and once your opponent refuses, throw more defamation on the guy, and then sign to fight A KNOWN AND CAUGHT steroid user.

Mayweather's motives are obviously not to clean up the sport if he's willing to scrub a fight with Pacquiao to take on Mosley.

 

When did Mosley test positive for PED? WHich fight was that in? I'll Holla 5000

 

are you serious?

 

I believe it was the same day Manny Pacquiao tested positive.

 

Umm..did you create that idea in your head like other writers did? Because the testing was in the contract from day ONE. And if you actually stayed abreast of the news, you would've realized this. You also would've realized that the matter didn't blow up until weeks later. Here is Dan Rafael correcting Brian Kenny over when these tests were asked for. Turn to the 5:50 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQs6U8EMakg

And if that's not enough, I'll find more for you. Now poof, vamoose, be gone!

 

I don't get it. What's your issue with better testing? The fact that someone (gasp!) had the nerve to ask for it?

 

No..the fact that that same someone WON'T ask for it in his next fight vs a KNOWN abuser of the gear.

 

Can I put this in my sig?

 

Yes, well, the "Floyd only asked for better testing vs. one specific opponent, Pac, in order to get out of the fight" argument topples just like all the others.

Now the people who have for the last 5 years called Floyd ignorant, idiotic, hippety-hop, and all other manner of names will come back with a new theory which again has Floyd Mayweather being a future-predicting genius. Who knew? Now it will be:
(A) Floyd not only planned the drug test stipulation with Pac, KNOWING Pac would somehow refuse, thus allowing him a reason to get out of the fight
(B) But wait there's more! He also was able to see that the Haitian earthquake would occur, thus making Shane available and so..
(C) He then planned to sign to fight Shane, wherein he would still require enhanced testing, which he knew Shane would ACCEPT somehow so that..
(D) Finally he could not only get out of a $40M fight with Pac(?), he could also further discredit Pac through his genius, brilliance, clarevoyance, and psychic power.

You guys - don't you remember this is the dope you HATE? Now he's Nostra-fucking-damus and Bernie Madoff all rolled into one. Yeesh. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the guy just thought Pac was juiced?

 

Would a blood test immediately after the fight show whether a fighter was on PEDs?

 

Clearly not, the issue is whether preparation for a fight is carried out using PEDs as part of said training. If testing is scheduled, schedule of PED use can be planned around necessary washout periods in order to test negative. Hence, the importance of random testing, why, for examples, olympic testing involves unannounced demands for samples from athletes at any time during the year.

 

Thanks.
So do they enhance your performance during the fight, but are not in your system to the extent that they are detectable immediately afterwards?

 

Yes, while the physiological changes or benefits attributable are longer lasting, the half life of a lot of these drugs is a lot shorter. Case in point being EPO, a compound endogenously produced, which increases haemoglobin content; synthetic EPO which does much the same can be distintly tested for but while it has limited detection window, its effects can last for weeks and months afterwards

 

Did you win a sig bet? Then STFU.::

 

Seeing as quite a few fighters have been caught by the standard post fight piss test, I don't think it's entirely accurate to say "clearly not".

Logically, a drug would also take longer to leave your bloodstream.

 

Thanks.

 

What do you base this on?

 

Other drugs. Most drugs can be detected in your bloodstream longer than in urine.

And some fighters even fail the very basic post fight piss test, including Toney, when trained by the trainer-cum-alchemist himself - Freddie Roach.

 

Well we're not testing for crystal meth. The bottom line is that the blood test is important in detecting for several reasons.

 

To test properly blood and urine needs to be taken. Which is exactly why both are tested for by the USADA.

 

Well said. It should also be mentioned that any sort of drug which aids in muscle-building would clearly give you an advantage on fight night even if you stopped taking it weeks or perhaps months before, as the muscle would already be there an certainly would not degrade to any significant extent in a short time. In fact, chronic steroid users are always using in cycles.

EPO is such a good example of this principle, because one of the main tests used to discover it doesn't even look for EPO or anything analagous. It is rather a test for (basically) red blood cells as a percentage of blood volume. And even though some men may actually have percentages that get close to or above 50%, typically if you are over 50% you are considered to have tested positive, period. So you go into your fight with the artificially high ability to oxygenate your muscles, you have more energy, more stamina, and simply don't get tired as fast.

At first I thought that a lot of the contention over all this drug talk was the natural fighter-fan stuff. But I have come to think that maybe the majority of posters here truly did not (or still don't) understand what PED use has evolved into. There are guys out there like Victor Conte, who spend considerable amounts of time studying body chemistry, pharmacology, and even becoming experts on the existing test methods being used to detect PEDs. So an athlete who is serious about using, and is reasonably intelligent, would be "coached" by someone who would lay out an exact schedule for them based on when their performance event occurs and when/how tests are done. So when a fighter (let's say, oh, Pac) signs a fight, and dates are announced for training/fight/testing, a regimen is established for maximum gain and elimination of possible positive testing.

This is why Pac didn't leave the table at the suggestion of drug testing. Rather, he simply continued to counter by establishing FIXED DATES for the tests. It was not crucial to him that he avoid testing.... it was crucial to him that he KNEW EXACLTY WHEN IT WOULD BE. Even 14 days before a fight is not a big deal, if you know it in advance. After all, does it really matter if you lose 2% of your PED benefit because you simply cycle down for a stretch of a week before the test?

In all honesty, had Pac simply refused all testing, period, I would have been far more inclined to believe that he was just ticked off at Floyd. It's like you are asked by a friend to please clean his toilet with your toothbrush every Tuesday, and incensed at the request you don't respond with a "NO!"... you respond with a "well how about Wednesday instead?" Pac had no trouble at all with the notion - he had trouble with the word "random".

 

I certainly agree with that. A straightforward no would have aroused far less suspicion than the array of excuses.

But as I said, the refusal/excuses to me aren't an admission of guilt, as suspicous as it may seem.

And the fact that Manny is on record years ago saying he didn't like having blood taken and that it weakened him at least makes that side of the excuses seem less like bullshit.

You also don't know if all these different excuses were from Manny itself, or his team just speaking on his behalf, and twisting things. The only thing I've heard Manny say himself is he feels taking blood weakens him, which matches up with what he said after the Morales fight.

 

So? He's been using that blood drawing prior to the Morales fight as an excuse to say that he didn't want to be tested right before the fight. So how does that equate to 24 days? It doesn't and is simply irrelevant.

 

The point is, he is on record on a video YEARS ago right after the Morales fight, stating he thinks taking blood weakens him.

My point is simple - it's not an excuse pulled out of the air, it seems to be something he believes, even if physically, the blood test has no effect. It obviously has an effect on Pacquiao psychologically, which is a huge part of boxing.

It's completely relevant.

 

Relevant to what, Mex? Yes we know all of this. Isn't this the same Pacquiao who said that, because of what occured, he would not be ok with the test if it was right before the fight? The same Pacquiao who, in seperate interviews, claimed he was fine with cut off dates for testing that included: five days before the fight, three days before the fight and anything but the day of the fine? The same guy who settled at...24? LOL @ you selectively hearing what Pacquiao says. Even he didn't try to justify the 24 days with that blood excuse.

 

I don't remember Manny saying he was fine with the cut off dates that are five days before the fight etc.

I just remember him saying, he didn't want to agree to the random testing because there was a chance of them taking blood like a day before the fight.

As for the 24 days, the only reason he chose that number, was that was when he had blood taken in the Hatton fight.

G were trying to say it was 14 days before the fight (it must have aired 14 days before the fight) - then it was discovered it was 24 days, so that was their offer.

What I think Floyd should have done if he really wanted the fight is just accept Manny's compromise, or indeed seeing as they'd already done a lot of work regarding this testing, even getting the USADA involved etc - what they should have done was go that extra mile, approach USADA and say look, he has agreed to random urine testing, you've developed a urine test for HGH etc, let's use it. But they didn't, they rejected Manny's compromise and the fight was off.

And you'll turn around and say oh no no, Manny rejected Floyd's compromise. But no, what Manny was offering - random urine anytime, 3 blood tests and 1 right after the fight in his locker room, is a fuck load closer to olympic style testing than the testing they've both done for every fight in their whole career - 1 piss test after the fight.

So given that, Manny's compromise was ample.

 

So when they agreed not to take his blood the day before, what was his response?

So basically, they were caught taking a blood test 24 days before the fight and compromised from 30 to 24. How does this jive with not wanting a test the day before the fight?

Actually, the only reasonable compromise between 30 days and zero is 14. Zero is what the USADA's protocol calls for. 30 is what Pacquiao wanted. Floyd suggests 14, Pac 24 and you're fine with it? I guess.

Also, there is no urine test for HGH on the market so why do you keep bringing it up? I'm not sure it's even been tested yet. Tell me, who uses this test?

That's not a compromise, Mex. That's telling the USADA how to do their job. Team Pacquiao wanted three tests, one at the opening press conference, one during training (not administered within 24 days) and one after the fight. Basically, they want announced testing. But you see that as a compromise. I see that as their way of avoiding random testing. You can't tell the anti-doping agency what tests you'd like and what you don't. That's crap. Why agree at all?