"Money" Mayweather vs Julio Cesar Chavez at 140lbs

Floyd looked bad against Castillo because he was still recovering from the shoulder and hand injury he got in the Famoso Hernandez fight. But that being said, Chavez would have a great shot at beating Mayweather at 130 or 135 simply because of the style mismash. Mayweather's the type of guy who has a great defense, but doesn't throw as many punches as a Sugar Ray Robinson or - let's face it - even a prime Pernell Whitaker. Chavez's talent, power, underrated defense, heart and pure willpower would make it a very tough night for Floyd.

Only an idiot like Horseface would dismiss Chavez's chances. I doubt he's seen more than a fight or two of Chavez's below 140, if any. Oh, and sitting at your laptop or your desktop while you're watching a fight isn't watching a fight.

 

I think Mayweather would win a decision. It was his first fight at lightweight when he fought Castillo and people are always comparing Chavez and Castillo but they're missing one thing. Castillo is a bigger guy than Chavez ever was. Chavez was shorter and not quite as strong IMO although his skills were far superior than Castillos. I guess my point is that Floyds problems with Castillo didnt necessarily come about because of Castillos skill level rather they arose from Castillo being really strong and really heavy. The guy came in the ring at 160 fighting lightweights, Chavez was never that way. The rematch showed Castillo wasnt on Floyds level. Chavez would make the fight more exciting but he would get a beating i think at any weight. Although Chavez was so great you never know.

 

I don't know. If you're going to argue that Castillo's size made that much of a difference, I'm not going to take your argument that seriously. Mayweather had no trouble competing at 140, 147 and 154, while Castillo sucked above 135.

 

Exactly, once he lost that weight and strength advantage he was an ordinary fighter....and if you don't think Mayweather would have trouble against Margarito, Kermit, Williams, Alcine, and company due to their strength and size then you haven't been paying attention to his matchmaking since he moved north of 135.

 

Hatton, De la Hoya, Baldomir, Judah... All those guys were muuuuuch bigger than Castillo, and they didn't give Mayweather much trouble. Mayweather was injured. End of story.

 

bump

 

I think I'd have to lean marginally towards Floyd, now. Not because of anything he's done in the last few years, I just think I'm more objective than I was a few years ago.

There'd likely be allot of contentious rounds though.

 

They both have ideal styles to trouble the other... what concerns me for Mayweather's sake is that I don't know that he's active enough to win THE FIGHT as opposed to winning some rounds

It's a good matchup, great clash of styles and temperment

Anywhere from 130-140, it's a can't miss fight... guaranteed to be close and classic... Gun to my head, I'd probably pick Chavez because of his constant aggression and his higher workrate, but it's always close in my mind when I try to envision it unfolding

 

When will people learn that it's silly to pick against Floyd based upon his opponent's higher workrate.

Hatton generally had higher workrate than Floyd, same with Castillo, same with Corrales...just to name 3. In fact when i think about it it's probably true of the majority of his opponent's..when they are not facing him. Floyd's style LIMITS the punch output of his opponents.

Corrales threw a ridiculous amount of punches in the Castillo fight as did Castillohimself. Corrales threw about 10 punches per round against Floyd. Floyd's movement and/or elusiveness and counterpunching discourages his opponents from throwing at the rate they usually throw at.

Chavez' workate WILL DROP in a fight with Floyd. No doubt.

 

when will YOU learn that there are actually other great fighters besides Floyd Mayweather?

 

I'm not denying that. And I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong in picking Chavez to win. I'm saying that picking Chavez based upon workrate is ridiculous and uninformed.

when will you learn?

For example:

Most people on this forum picked Pavlik to beat Hopkins. You were probably one of them. The main reason for this pick was Pavlik's known prodigious workrate vs Hopkins known economical workrate. The one and only sly was telling anyone who would listen that Hopkins' style reduces the workrate of his opponents and you'd see Pavlik transformed into a one dimensional stalking low output mummy.

This is exactly what happened. Where was the Pavlik workate that he displayed against Miranda for example? It was NOWHERE. Why? Hopkins aint no Miranda that's there to be hit.

 

The question was who could have possibly beaten Floyd

I agree with this man. Very smart guy.

 

I actually picked Hopkins to school Pavlik, shows what you know about anything

What YOU are missing is that Chavez always FORCED opponents to expend a lot of energy, he forced them to throw punches... Chavez was EVERY BIT AS GREAT AT THAT as Mayweather is at slowing guys down... If you think Mayweather (or anybody) is going to beat Chavez throwing one shot at a time, you don't understand the game, you don't understand the pressure he put on people

The only guy I ever saw make a dent in Chavez's punch output in his prime was Meldrick Taylor... And Taylor did that by essentially doing the opposite of what Floyd does-- he threw TONS OF PUNCHES, which forced Chavez to have to pick his spots... I never saw anybody successfully employ careful counterpunching against him... If you think that anybody on Earth is going to beat Chavez throwing 15 power shots (almost all of them single-shots) per round, you are crazy... It would be imperative for Floyd to commit far more often than that... Chavez was vastly more skilled and expert at placing his punches, working his way in close and cutting off the ring than someone like Castillo or Corrales or Jesus Chavez... he's in a totally different class than those guys... Floyd can not win fighting against Julio the way he fought against Jesus Chavez, for example... he would HAVE to increase his workrate, just as JCC would have to find a different means of getting his hook to the body to work (because Mayweather is great at defensing that type of punch)

 

At 135 I think Chavez pulls of a close a decision. He'd force Floyd out of his comfort zone but it would be very competitive. I could see Floyd make adjustments in a rematch and win, though.

 

How much Mayweather slows Chavez down is def one of the most fascinating aspects of this. Taylor threw at an enormous volume (much more of a Pac type speedster than a Floyd) and Whitaker threw pretty high numbers, too. There's really no frame of reference for this from Chavez' side, but I think the problems Augustus' slick defence coming forward caused for Mayweather at times is interesting. Floyd isn't as mobile as Taylor or Pernel and if you can make him miss you have opportunities to throw at him, because he's still there.

As much as Chavez hasn't faced somebody exactly like Floyd, Floyd has never faced a guy who could make him miss & had the immediate intention to let four shots go, off the slip.

As i said, ALLOT of close rounds.

 

130? Chavez, Arguello, Elorde & Saddler are strong contenders. There aren't many others. Floyd was among the best of the best at that weight.

As the weight classes go up, so do the number of names. WAAAHAAAY MORE than just Leonard, Hearns & Robinson with a very good chance at welter.:scared:

 

Floyd at any weight over Chavez.

 

According to conventional wisdom, sure. Lots of names can be thrown out there.

But IMO...the only ones I'd make the favourites (slight, mind you) over Floyd at Welterweight are Hearns, Leonard and Robinson. I'd make Floyd even money with Duran and Benitez for example. Favour him over De La Hoya, Quartey, Trinidad for example

At 140...I'd have Floyd even money with Pryor and slightly favoured over Chavez, Taylor and Tszyu.

At 154lbs...I'd favour a great deal many names over Floyd. McCallum, Hearns, possibly Tito, Leonard and a few more if I give it some thought.

Below 140lbs there are a couple that would be even money with him, IMO...Whitaker, Duran obviously at Lightweight

 

Prime DLH & Mosley are both 50/50 fights, in my book. Everybody above that level should be favoured. I'm a big Floyd admirer, but you overrated him and underestimate just how appalling his opposition at welterweight has been. It's been catshit.

 

Agreed!!!

 

seriously, of the two I give floyd a better shot at oscar than mosley. Oscar was active but highly inaccurate. I'll never forget the "and Oscar strafe's whitaker with an eight punch combination!!!!!"

The replay shows (and Merchant points out) none of the shots landed.

Mosley is a whole different kettle of fish. Mosley's handspeed was on par if not better than Floyd's. Plus, he was offensive minded. The right hand he hurt Floyd with he regularly threw.

Plus, with the chin he's got...whether he took one in return, he'd be more apt to fire back immediately...which is what you have to do against a guy who thinks defense first.

 

"slightly favored" over Tszyu? Floyd would've murdered Tszyu, Tszyu knew it too

I think Floyd would have a very tough time with prime De La Hoya and Quartey both at 147, I don't know if the skill gap would be enough to offset the size differential here.

At 135 I would favor Duran and maybe Whitaker over Floyd.. and that's it

 

Sly, the only reason you can think of only three welterweights that would beat Mayweather is because you are only aware of about 6 notable welterweights ever

 

Dude.....

Mosley was always overrated and you overrated him more than most. You would think the Forrest and Wright fights would have woken you up by now.

Floyd would have beaten Mosley every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

As Roger would say: "This is a thinking man's game"

Shane didn't think. Shane just fought. He had fast hands, sure, but he wasn't a smart or adaptable fighter. Floyd would have thoroughly outboxed him at any point in time.

 

yeah buddy. That's it. ::

 

Napoles, Gavilan, Curry, Griffith, Luis Rodriguez would all beat Mayweather at 147... I don't even have a shadow of a doubt about it

I agree that he beats Mosley's stupid, one-dimensional, fake warrior ass, though... not as easily as he did when they actually fought, but he wins just the same

 

You wouldn't have a shadow of a doubt about is since you know the fights are mythical and you could never be proven wrong. If those guys happened to exist today and the fights were actually signed you'd probably pick Floyd since you know that would be the outcome. But when MYTHICAL the safe position is always to pick the heralded names of yesterday over the contemporary fighter that no one likes.

Put Mayweather in the eras of those fighters with all of his abilities and you really think they beat him?


Agreed on Mosley, of course. Dude fooled alot of people with his fast hands and "sexy" pivots and poses. He was one-dimensional, very hittable and although his hands were fast (faster than Floyd's even) his punches were strangely rather telegraphed.

 

what are you talking about?? the only person with an agenda regarding Floyd is YOU

I DO NOT SEE Floyd being able to beat Gavilan -- a tall, strong, iron-chinned Welterweight who presents a bewildering array of styles in the space of just a handful of rounds and does so with considerable speed and technical brilliance

Napoles (as touched on in the PBF/Napoles thread) is essentially Mayweather's worst nightmare

Curry is about as technically accomplished as it gets, hits exceptionally hard, has brilliant speed of hand and foot and is bigger and stronger

Griffith, again a much stronger guy than Mayweather, and a guy who proved over and over to be able to fight ANY style

Rodriguez is also, to me, a no-brainer... Again, a bigger, stronger welterweight, difficult to hit, awkward, and every bit as good a counterpuncher as Mayweather

Sly, thinking Floyd Mayweather is one of the 5 or six best welterweights ever IS THE CONTRARIAN Position, not the logical one... the burden of proof is on YOU