MUSIC: the official thread.

I went back and had a listen, since I've not heard the tune in many, many years

What I would say is this... Tom Verlaine, like most kids of his generation, likely developed his lead playing based off of blues music. The mechanics of what he is playing indicate as much. The difference is that rather than playing your typical blues leads, he is purposely choosing notes from outside of the pentatonic scale for the basic key the song takes place in (E... with the rhythm guitarist in the left channel alternating between a E7 (a "blues" E) E major and Emaj6 after his opening riff which is very much a blues riff) ...

The little thing he plays just before the start of the verse is basically just a reverse Pentatonic scale starting in G and progressing downwards... What makes it different is that he ends the downward pattern in F sharp... a note that is not in an E pentantonic scale... this starts to give it a sort of exotic flavor, which is then further driven home by his next choice of notes- F sharp to G, B flat to B, B flat to C sharp... This works nicely with the subtle change in voicing performed by the other guitarist (C sharp is, after all, the one note that changes an E major or E7 into an Emajor 6... so while he is playing that chord, Verlaine is creating "resolve" by ending his little phrase exactly one octave higher) ...

Now, as for the soloing toward the end... Again, the physical style is really no different than that used in playing typical electric blues guitar... what makes it "un-bluesy" is that Verlaine is choosing to play in a purposely different type of scale and further creating the weird factor with liberal use of a whammy bar to further skew the notes, which causes them to sound slightly out of tune (by design; these guys weren't The Ramones, they could actually play::)

The "licks" (I hate that word) are physically identical to 1000 blues cliches, the difference is that Verlaine is purposely NOT playing them in the type of scale they need to be in to be blues "licks"

I would guess from listening to him that he is probably like myself in that he doesn't read music or consciously think "ok, I'm going to play a mixolydian scale here and a Tetratonic scale there" but rather knows his instrument, knows where the notes are, how they will sound among the music playing around him and, without being able to immediately tell you the proper theoretical name for whatever he has just done, he knows it one way or another every bit as well as a guy trained in a conservatory... I don't know if he has perfect pitch or not, or some sort of close "photographic" cousin of it, but even if he does not, if he knows what key he is in, he likely has it all mapped out in the memory banks ("in the key of E, this fret makes X sound happen", etc) ... The guys in my old band, three of them were big on theory and the school names of things, I'm self-taught from ear and can;t read anything, so the names mean nothing to me... It was my job to listen to potential cover songs and teach them to the band, which usually involved me playing the chords to songs and the various notes and showing them to the theory guys... from there, I would learn that my "one of these" was a Dflat9 or whatever... but I still have to sometimes think it through to be able to tell you something like "Friction is E7/Emaj/Emaj6 during the verses" because I frankly don't think of it that way, I picture it on the guitar... I hear E as the dominant tone and the rest falls into place like a quick jigsaw puzzle

 

yeah, I never liked them either

 

It's all subjective. People like Pete Townsend and Johny Marr are Oasis fans. There aren't many bands out these days that can accomplish what Oasis have done.

 

Quoasis.

 

Tabs are easy, it's like looking at a diagram of a fretboard. I only use them if I can't figure something out by ear. Usually I can figure most things out without them. The one thing about tabs is that if you don't know the song well, it's hard to learn things because you don't know how it should sound. I just got this app called Tab Pro that is awesome, it plays the tabs in midi so you can see and hear the song. You can also slow it down if it's a passage you are having trouble with at full speed.

 

That sounds pretty cool... especially being able to change it up tempo-wise

 

Hut, you better acknowledge that goddamned novel:mut:

 

I can tell by that novel that you know far more theory than me. I am much like you in my playing though, I don't think in scales, I think in terms of what sounds good to me. Even if I am improvising, scales never cross my mind. I just play what feels right.

 

same...

The only reason I know some is from showing "one of these" to the guys in my band and hearing the name of the "one of these" said back to me 1000 times::

Notes I know right away because of perfect pitch or whatever it is I have

 

::

Yeah thanks man, I wasn't ignoring it, promise. It's just I'm not sure what any of it means so it's gonna take me a few times reading it with my guitar in hand before I can come up with a constructive reply to it.::

 

:laughing:

 

I couldn't break down a song like you did cdogg, I don't know why things sound the way they do, I just know they do. Lately I have been trying to wrap my head around basic theory, but then it seems like work and it bores me. I just like playing the damn guitar.

 

if all roads lead to the same place, then it doesn't matter which one you like to drive

 

Unless all roads are leading to Slough, in which case you turn around and drive back

 

::

 

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Gentlemen - thoughts on RATM? Just wondering as I don't think I've ever seen them discussed here. What do you guys make of Morello as a guitarist? Innovator or a gimmick-merchant?

 

I don't like Rage but I do like Morello as a guitarist.

 

Buckethead destroys Morello though at his own style even.

 

When I first heard the RATM self titled debut album I was blown away. Great album, no filler, all quality songs. The thing is, their formula is quite restrictive and never really evolved, so every subsequent album seemed like a lesser imitation of the debut. That Morello solo Nightwatchman shit was fucking horrible, and I was massively disappointed with Audioslave. Some of Zacks solo stuff and collaborations were pretty good though.

 

I agree, at first I kind of liked their stuff, but the more I heard the more it all sounded the same. I haven't heard any of the singers solo stuff.

 

I like their politics so good on 'em.

 

Anyone like The Dead Kennedy's? Since we're talking about political bands.

 

gimmick-merchant

but the gimmick worked for that particular band

I never liked them because their music lacked dynamics and was very repetitive... also the singer has one of the most irritating voices in recorded history

 

basically the AC/DC of the 90s - same song played in 40 slightly different ways

 

I can't stand AC/DC.

 

yup... AC/DC for those who enjoy examining sociopolitical issues

 

I always thought Zack had a cool voice :dunno:. Nice delivery. Far better than the cunt from AC/DC

 

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The Pixies are like really good.:)