No. 42% FG percentage. Leads the NBA in turnovers. Curry and Harden are better. AD is better, Lebron is better, healthy Durant is better, CP3 may even be better.
I don't know why so many people are fixed on that efficiency trend. Curry and Harden are not half the defensive players Westbrook is. He does everything on that team, something gotta give.
Which means metrics are part OK and part bullshit. I don't see anyone trembling at the thought of being defended by Curry. Klay Thompson is more of a two way player than Curry is.
Uuuuh, Westbrook "Defers" to the Clip of Nearly 9 Assists PER Game...7 for his Career... While Westbrook's Never Met a Shot he Doesn't Like, this Notion that he's SELFISH or a BALLHOG Isn't Supported by a Shred of Evidence... REED:mj:
THIS... If Anyone Needs to Make CHANGES to their Game, it Just Might Be Durant... He's a 6'11 PERIMETER Player, for Fuck's Sake!!!:l3:...EVERY Great Player w/Size is Eventually FORCED Into Developing @ Least a SEMBLANCE of a Post Game, @ SOME Point...Instead of Settling for Fadeaway Jumpers while Being Guarded by PG's like Chris Paul (Who's BARELY 6ft Tall)... Magic Johnson Could Post Up, Penny Hardaway Could Post Up, Grant Hill Could Post Up...Dirk Nowitzki's POST GAME Improvements Led the Mavs to a Championship...Bron Posting Up More Led to a Miami Repeat... Again, Durant is STRICTLY a PERIMETER Player @ this Point...A Fucking "Stretch 3" or "Oversized 2-Guard", if Ever there was 1....When he's In the Paint, it's the Result of a Fastbreak or Slashing to the Hole Off the Dribble...When Other Teams are Guarding you w/PG's, Get your 6'11 Ass in the Paint, PERIOD...Durant HASN'T Taken his Game to THAT Level Yet, but he'll NEED To, to Fulfill his Promise... Also, While Durant CAN Handle the Rock, he's NOT a Facilitator...He DOESN'T Need to have the Ball in his Hands as Much as Russell Westbrook Does... REEDhno:
Fair Enough, SMARTASS... But While You're @ it, Break the Shit All the Way Down, Homey...This Season, James Harden has 4 Games of 20+ Free Throw Attempts, Westbrook has 2...Harden's Shot as Many as 23 FT's in 2 Games This Season, Westbrook Has Yet to Shoot More than 22 FT's in Any Game this Season...His Only Other 20+ Attempt Games was Literally 20... Excluding the Aforementioned Games, James Harden has 13 ADDITIONAL Games w/@ Least 15 Attempts...Westbrook Only has 7 More...1 Guy Having THAT Many Games of 15 FT Attempts Isn't Good, Sorry... CLEARLY, Harden RELIES on FT's More than Westbrook Does, Not to Mention Westbrook CLEARLY Being the More AGGRESSIVE Player...Your Boy NEEDS Whistle Happy Refs to Bail him Out AND he has Fans like YOU Buying into that "Asthma" Bullshit, to Explain his PUTRID Man to Man Defense, on the Other End of the Court...Yet he's "Better" than Westbrook All of a Sudden???...Fuck That... Harden WASN'T Better than Westbrook when he was COMING OFF THE FUCKING BENCH for OKC & he's NOT Better than Westbrook Now...& Even if Neil Attaches Laughing Smiley's to EACH of your Responses Hereafter, it Doesn't Alter that... REEDhno:
How EXACTLY Does FG% Matter in a Westbrook-Harden Debate when 1 Guy's Shooting .427% from the Field, the Other .439%???:dunno:... TO's, 4.4 and 4.0...Let's NOT Pretend Harden is Chris Paul w/the Rock, or Anything Remotely Close... REED:mj:
There's NO "Defensive Metric" for Straight Up, Man-to-Man, PERIMETER Defense, Bro...AsIndividual, Man-to-Man Perimeter Defenders, Harden & Curry AREN'T In Westbrook's League...That ISN'T Even Debatable...As TexMex EXCUSED Last Season, Harden has ASTHMA, After All... On the End of the Court Where Harden and Curry SHOULD have an Advantage, Westbrook LEADS the League in Scoring & is 4th in Dimes...This Argument is QUITE a Bit More Valid than Some of Ya'll Realize... REED:mj:
Curry's a Better SHOOTER & BALLHANDLER than Westbrook, but that's Literally It...He's Also Only Been SLIGHTLY Less Injury Prone in his Career...People Forget, Curry's STRUGGLED w/Ankle Injuries & Only in the Last 1 1/2-2 Years has he Seemed To Get PAST that Issue... So Shooting, Ballhandling, Durability...That's Really It...Westbrook's BIGGER, Considerably More ATHLETIC, a MUCH Better Rebounder...Scores More PPG, Averages More Assists & Westbrook ISN'T a 1-Way Player, as You Alluded to... REED:dunno:
Because efficiency translates to wins. A team has a certain amount of possessions, teams that piss away possessions are more likely to lose to a team not as talented, but more efficient. This is even more compounded in the playoffs, and if WB plays as inefficient as he has been, there's a sweep coming, with blowouts. And Harden is no slouch on defense anymore. He's not All NBA defensive first team, but that has been the biggest improvement to his game. There's no youtube videos of shitty defense this year. Is Harden as good as a defender, no. But the gap is much closer than you might think.
Simply put, WB is not on Durants level. Durant is a 50/40/90 player. There's absofucking nothing wrong with his game. He doesn't need to post up anyone. He's the most efficient scorer in the NBA. If OKC had to choose between the two, it would be an easy decision.
Harden has been shooting 45% for much of the year, even his career numbers support this. By the time the season is over, he'll be at around 45% once again. WB on the other hand is shooting his typical 42%. Here's the problem REED, it's not only shooting percentage, it's a combination of % and FGA. Harden shoots 18 times a game, WB 21. WB since the All Star break, around 24 times! 42% shooting on 21-24 attempts a game is simply kind of shitty. As far as turnovers are concerned, Harden since the all star break 3.7 TO WB since the all star break 6 TO. When the season is over, one player will be shooting 45% on 18 FG per game, the other will be shooting 42% at what will then be around 22 FG per game. When the season is over, one player will be averaging under 4 TO per game, the other will be closing in on 5!
Hey you're the one who said there wasn't a close second. Go ahead REED, break it down. You said a player having x amount of games of 15 FT is not good. Actually you are very very wrong. 15 FT attempts with an 87% probability of them going in is a VERY good thing. Do you think a coach says to himself "oh no, my 87% FT shooter keeps going to the line?" Anyway you break it down, Westbrook, Durant, Wade, Kobe, Lebron have all averaged 9+ FT attempts, some more than 10 in consecutive years!!! You say going to the line is a bad thing, when some of the names above have gone the line even MORE. Do you have a problem with them? Whether he "relies" on freethrows or not, is he supposed to stop taking it to the rack because some dumb shit defender is going slap his arms and he may go to the line a lot because they keep doing it? That make no fucking sense. About his "putrid" defense. Welcome to 2015. Harden is now a VERY good defender. Harden's team is 47-22 in the games he has played this year. Westbrook's team is 35-20 in the games he has played this year. Harden IS the better player, is he as talented? No. Is he as exciting to watch? No. Would the Rockets trade Harden for Westbrook? Fuck no.
Unless You're Telling REED The League's Most Efficient Team Wins the NBA Championship EVERY Single Year, there's Obviously Room for ERROR in Relying on Efficiency Ratings... & Unless You're Telling REED the League's Most Efficient Player is ALWAYS on the Team w/the Most Wins, AGAIN, there's Clearly a FLAW in Relying on Efficiency Ratings... Westbrook's Playing as he ALWAYS Has, just @ a HIGHER Level...If his Teams WEREN'T Getting Swept & Blown Out Previously in the Playoffs, it Damn Sure AIN'T Happening Now...That's Merely Wishful Thinking on YOUR Behalf, Similar to When You Actually Believed Patrick Beverley Could Contain Damian Lillard for a Playoff Series, Which Clearly WASN'T the Case... Your Houston/Harden Huggery Knows NO Bounds...Dude Still SUCKS Defensively, Homey...Here's his Fine Work in the Fiba World Cup of Basketball: [video=youtube;qjcY4ODBGSo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjcY4ODBGSo[/video] Here's Harden in a Game vs. the Knicks, Earlier this Season: [video=youtube;AC53cIJC_00]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC53cIJC_00[/video] No Youtube Videos of Shitty Defense, Huh???...Fuck Outta Here w/that Shit, Dude...The Gap btwn Harden & Westbrook, Defensively, is MUCH Fuuuuuurther than You Can Bring Yourself to Admit...You're just BLINDED by the Jersey he Wears... REED:dance2:
When CHRISfuckingPAUL is Guarding your 6'11 Ass & You're Settling for Fadeaway Jumpers, that's a Problem... REED:mj:
Harden's Shot 45% or Higher TWICE in his Entire 6 Year Career...Sorry, but his #'s DON'T Support what You're Saying, Again, it's What You WANT to Happen... You Single Out Westbrook's .427 FG% and Career #'s of .432%, yet YOUR Boy is Sitting @ .439% this Season and .444% for his Career...Sorry, but there Simply ISN'T a Big Enough Margin in their Shooting %'s for You to Harp on Westbrook's to the Degree you Do... & the Fact that you Blindly ASSume Harden's Going to IMPROVE his FG% & DECREASE his TO's This Season, While Westbrook will Get WORSE in Each Regard, is yet ANOTHER Example of You Projecting your Unsupported, Unfounded WISHES onto a Debate...No MORE, No LESS... REEDhno:
Yep, but You Pointing Out the FT AVERAGE Didn't Tell the Real Story, the Way REED's #'s Did... When a Player has as Many 15+ FT Games as Harden Does, it's Because the Refs are BUYING INTO his Bullshit...He FLAILS his Arms, FALLS to the Ground from a Hint of Contact, Screams like he's Been Stabbed, WHATEVER it Takes to Convince the Refs he's Been Fouled...Sorry, but he's NOT Getting his Arms Slapped 15+ Times in as Many Games as he's Shot that Many FT's...He just ISN'T... & When he DOESN'T Get the Calls, Very Few BITCH to the Degree Harden Does...Why, Because he Flat Out RELIES on Getting to the Line...He RELIES on Putting Refs In a Position of Making a Call they Might Second Guess Later...When the Refs Swallow their Whistles & Let Guys PLAY, Harden's Effectiveness DIMINISHES... It's a SHITTY Way to Play the Game, Especially when Compared to Someone like Westbrook, who BARES his Heart & Soul for his Team, EVERY Game...If You BELIEVE in your Talent, just Play Fucking Basketball...Don't CON the Refs Into Bailing You Out.... NOfuckingWAY in Hell is Harden BETTER than Westbrook, Dude...& if Harden Wore ANY OTHER Jersey, You'd Agree...Again, he WASN'T Better in OKC & he ISN'T Better Now...Their CAREER #'s Don't Suggest it, Nor Do their CURRENT #'s... REEDhno:
the FG% numbers arent really close when you factor in 3 pointers. harden shoots more and makes them at a considerably higher percentage.
So What You're Saying is, in Addition to Relying on Refs, Harden Relies on 3's???...He's Also CLEARLY an Inferior Defender to Westbrook, yet YOU and TexMex are Arguing Harden's the BETTER Player???...It Certainly Doesn't SOUND like It... You're NOT Helping his Case by Using the Fact he Shoots More 3's as an EXCUSE for the FACT his FG% is Waaaaaaaaaaay More COMPARABLE to Westbrook's than Ya'll Would Like... REED:mj:
Im saying harden has a stronger case for MVP this season, and is a better fit on a team with durant. also, the only year the thunder made it past the conference finals had more to do with how harden played than westbrook
they tell us harden's adjusted FG % is .509 which is 39th in the league, and westbrooks is .454 which is 106th
Zach Lowe is my usual go-to, he writes about this stuff all the time. This story is a couple years old but you get the gist. There is a strong correlation between 3-point attempts and team scoring efficiency, and an even more specific correlation between the number of short corner 3s a team attempts and its overall points per possession. The debate on this stuff is over. Math has won, though team-by-team personnel obviously still plays a huge role in a team’s shot-selection profile. http://grantland.com/features/the-reliance-3-pointer-whether-not-hurting-nba/
I never said efficiency is everything, but there's a definite correlation in terms of efficiency and wins. Harden in the games he's played this year 47-22 Westbrook in the games he's played this year 36-20 Durant last year WITHOUT Westbrook 36-11 Efficiency is not just FG% it's true FG% combined with FGA + turnovers. Why is Harden's team winning at a better clip than Westbrook's??? Why did OKC do so much better when it was Durant in and Westbrook out??? Without Durant, OKC will get swept or win 1 game at most and there WILL be blowouts. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, are you??? Harden is a damn good defender this year, you managed two youtube clips, one wasn't even from this fucking season hno: If Westbrook was the defensive juggernaut you claim he is, CP3 wouldn't have dropped 33 on his ass a few games ago reminding him who the best point guard in the NBA is.
