old timers overrated out of love....

Nice.

Another thing that most don't understand just looking the tape is that Johnson's (or Langford's) countering ability works so well because the opponents are not prepared for it. Back in those days very few fighters knew even the basics of countering and ran into them easily. An old truth is that it is easy to look good against inept opposition and that is what is happening.

Another thing that can't be seen on tape is that a counter-shot of a 200lbs works much better against a 180 lbs guy than against guy that is 230 lbs. Like it or not

 

Not really, Ugo. I think you're bull-shitting, as usual.
Let me give you an example.
Samuel Peter knocked Wlad (a natural super-heavyweight) down 3 times in 12 rounds, while managing to knock down James Toney (a natural middleweight) only once in 24 rounds.
Clearly, Peter's shots were working better against a much bigger guy
(unless, of course, you're willing to admit that a natural super-heavyweight like Wlad has a much worse chin than a natural middleweight like Toney)

 

dsimon writes:

There is no proof of that stratement ugo. Sure if boxers always fought the same conditions maybe, or if the ruoes were the same maybe, but ther are to many variables to consider. Boxers had to be aware of more and fight longer back in the old days so they fought differently. The gloves were smaller and if y9u broke your hand you were shit out of luck so punching was done differently as well.

The truth is that in boxing you used to come up in a guild of sorts. Old timers and hobbos (in Dempsey's case) taught you the subtle things you needed to survive. These guys were fighters though. They may not have been athletes in the sense that Michaels Grant or a modern heavy is but they knew how to fight and they were conditioned to fight until they could not fight anymore.

Frankly Dempsey's book is a good indication that these guys had a respect for the craft. His main boxing book is one of my favorites and is well written.

 

dsimon writes:

IandI and myself made a movie where Vitalie goes back in time and fights Jack Johnson and history is forever altered.

Vitalie goes back and gets in the ring and starts to pound Jack from pillor to post... Jack is bleeding and staggering when suddenly Quitalie hurts his shoulder and quits!! There is a riot! the patrons kill Quitalie and his team, and go set fire to Belarouse thinking this is Quitalie's native land. The first world war starts early as the arch duke of Belarouse is assisinated for Quitaly's performance and Poland becomes the seat for all the most intelligent dissidents from the area.

Consequently all Polish Jokes are in the future are forever altered.... for example: instead of how do you get a one armed polish person out of a tree (answer: wave) Polish jokes take the form: For example... what do you call it when a polish girl is menstruating? (answer Mensa-ating.... ).

 

Duran not being loved?

Jack Johnson being loved?

You alright, L?