olympic scoring sucks

It DOESN'T Hurt if U're MONGOLIAN, CHINESE or From Any Other ASIAN Country Either...


REED:kidcool:

 

Race on the brain, for as long as you live.

But I did feel that Andrade did enough to beat that Korean version of stinky Wright,..

 

Now, there are alot of stinkers in these olympics, but that Italian heavyweight was the worst. He's the perfect example of amateur fighters whose only mindsight is for olympic success, because that style won't get him past three rounds in the pros.

I'm actually quite shocked Andre Ward was able to beat that terrible style in 2004.

 

I don't know about that mikE.

Personally, I don't like amateur boxing AND I don't think it has huge significance in the pros. There are plenty of stellar amateurs who end up doing absolutely fuck all as pros (tucker ). Likewise, there are fighters with very limited amateur backgrounds who turn out to be some of the best fighters ever (Duran for example).

However, you can still see talent at amateur level, even if it's pro potential.

And in all honesty, in these olympics I see none. Forget about styles and transitions from amateur to pro etc, quite simply - none of them look good enough to make any noise in the pros.

 

You haven't see any?

Is the coverage there extensive and have you watched a lot of it?

I've watched most of the CNBC coverage since the middle of last week and I've seen some prospects I think could have good, perhaps very good, pro careers.

The problem is it's difficult to look good against the boxers that are less inclined to actually fight. It's taken some fighters completely out of their game. They get behind by a few points early, are forced to go completely offensive while their opponents move and hold and occsionally pot shot...a style that's a lot easier to implement in a four round fight that will only last a maximum of 8 minutes.

So, a lot of talented fighters have been eliminated already.

I just think it's hard, and in many cases misleading, to judge fighters based on amateur results or even sometimes the way they look against a certain opponent.

They look good one fight against a more willing opponent, the kind they're more likely to see in the pros, and then look bad against a negative fighter.

 

It's more about styles than results these days.

Yanez, Andrade, and Raynell Williams have shown styles that would work very well in the pros.

The Ukranian heavyweight shows that he has very good fundamentals and potential as a pro.

China's welterweight looks like he could do VERY well as a pro. Although, I don't know his age. He's got a teriffic style.

I really liked the indian kid that got knocked out of the first round. I can't remember his name off the top of my head.

Ireland's competitors all look very good and could do well in the pros.


I see lots of potential. Remember, when you're talking about 20 year old kids, you're going to see alot of green fighters. You really have to pay more attention to raw talent and any semblance of fundamentals than just the results themselves in these watered down days of amateur boxing.

 

I agree with you on the Americans...the question becomes whether they can get good managerial/promotional contracts after these Olympics.

I look forward to seeing Gary Russell Jr. as well.

Usyk is an interesting heavyweight prospect. Supposedly he was a middleweight a couple years ago, and now he's bulked up to heavyweight. He's got some of that lighter weight skill set and athleticism, but at 6'3 he seems to have the requisite height and size to be a heavyweight...while not losing all of his speed.

Roberto Camarelle is the other heavyweight prospect I've seen that looks good...and I remember him from the last Olympics. He had a history with Povetkin, though he was on the losing end several times.

The problem is if they turn pro in Europe then they won't be any better known than someone like Povetkin at best, perhaps Dimitrenko at worst...and then they'd be out of sight and mind of the American fans.

As you mentioend Simali Hanati, the Chinese welterweight, looked good yesterday.

I thought Oksung Lee of Korea looked pretty good.

Vasyl Lomachenko is only 21 and he would be my pick so far for the Val Barker award so far.

There's good talent in the lightweight division...Alexey Tischenko, Yordenas Ugas, Darleys Prez, Ongsuk Baik.

Marijo Sivolija-Jelica had a nice knockout in the first round...I didn't think he looked bad his next fight, either.

Bahkitar Artayev looked good in his win over Matvey Korobov.

Artur Beterbiev and Sergy Vodyoponov both looked on the end of questionable decisions...I'd like to see more of them in the future.

John Darren Sutherland and Alfonso Blanco Parra both look to have entertaining pro styles..and they're set to fight.

So, those are some names that I've taken note of so far, though I didn't see much of the first several days of the tournament.

There's some talent in these Olympics.

 

Cammarelel doesn´t want to turn pro. He has had nice offers, but Italy takes good care of its amatauer boxers, and he doesn´t want to quit his job. I think he could have been a world champion, if he had turned pro after the 2004 Olympics.

 

Yes fair points, I don't disagree, I think the difference is - despite the shitty potshotting opponents (which I hate by the way) - I just didn't see anything special that made me think, yeah he's gonna tear up the pro ranks.

 

That's too bad. I knew there were attempts made after the last Olympics but I thought maybe there'd be a better chance after these games, given his success at the World's and what it looks like he'll do this week.

 

Wow....Lomanchenko really is teriffic. Watching him right now.

 

honestly, i can careless about the U.S olympians. it's simple. they're just not very good.

i'm in korea right now, and it would be great to see the korean winky wright win the gold. even if he doesnt, it was great run defeating the son of julian jackson and the 2007 world champion.

also agree w/ arben. the featherweight ukranian kid is the best one i've seen so far in this tourney. it's also good to see Manus Boonjunmong back in the semi's after beating the 2007 champion.

i guess i'm in the minority here, but i wasn't overly impressed w/ that chinese jr. flyweight. jake said something about him fighting like a young roy jones, but i see him as more of an asian version of zab judah.

 

Huh?

 

Zou looked a lot better in the opening round than he did in the Round of 16. I thought he was a bit lucky to get past Oubaali (who looks like he can be at least as good as his brother in the pros), but looked much better in the opening round.

Also for what it's worth, I said that stylistically he reminded me of Roy, not that he's as good as Roy was. Just to clarify

agREED on Lomachenko - the only thing that can stop him at this point is Tishchenko deciding to drop back down to featherweight for one last fight. Seriously, though, the Gold is his to lose at this point.

Strange that Team Ukraine had so many tough breaks - seems like every fight they've had has been against Russia or China - yet their last two remaining fighters (Lomachenko and super heavyweight Vyacheslav Glazkov ) are the best bets of any division to walk away with Gold.

 

Yankiel Leon is just taking apart the '04 silver medalist Petchkoom. Some nice work upstairs and down from him, puts his punches together pretty well. Nice variety.

 

Djelkhir-Santos was one of the more entertaining fights of these Olympics.

The Mexican Santos stays in the chest of his opponent, pretty flat footed, but has pretty fast hands and fluid punches. I thought he lost a little bit of steam as the bout wore on, seemed to get a little sloppier with his punches and was throwing more arm punches later in the bout.

I'd like to see him as a pro, though he needs to be better and more compact with his defensive guard.

He's 23 years old.

We'll see if he's on Bob Arum's radar after these Olympics.

 

Zhilei Zhang is a big heayweight...6'7 and filled out. He's got some decent reflexes and technique for a fighter his size...and appeared to have some power scoring a knockdown against Myrsatayev and staggering him.

 

i saw zou's first fight that day after reading your post. he was really fast, but i dont know, because the impression i got was 'this is the guy they've been hyping up?' anyways, i wonder if guys like him will ever turn professional.

most of these asian olympians are in their mid to late 20s and also have master's degrees and shit. the guy who beat Warren in the first round said he intends on retiring from the sport to become a coach.

manus boonmunjong should've turned pro after the last olympics.

 

Have they shown Glazkov on CNBC yet? I was hoping to see him fight for the first time tonight, but they had the interview with Holyfield going and the only action I ended up seeing from his fight was the opposing Algerian coach yelling at a judge.

 

It was primarily the US olympians that disappointed me most.

One thing is that I don't watch amateur boxing, ONLY the olympics, so literally the last time I saw amateur boxing was 4 years ago.

So partly, I probably judge them to too high a standard seeing as I am only used to seeing pros.


Despite that, it's still the lowest talent pool I've seen in the olympics.

Ironically the only fighters that have looked half decent are a couple of Irish fighters, even though irish fighters are generally bums (lee, duddy etc). Donald Sutherland and Paddy Barnes look like they'd make decent pros.

Are there any Americans left now?

 

... if Golden Boy hasn't already signed him

 

Deontay Wilder, the 6'7" heavyweight (not super heavy, "just" heavy). He's USA's lone guaranteed medalist and fights in Friday's semi-finals against Clemente Russo, who lost to Ward as a LHW in the '04 Olympics, but is the defending world ammy HW champ and is favored to win the Gold.

 

Overall, I think this crop of amateurs aren't as talented as other olympics, although, it looks like they're also considerably younger. So it's probably just that.


I really liked China's super heavyweight.

I didn't see Ukraine's. Seems like Ukraine is going 1-2-3 in terms of favorite boxers amongst the board.


As much as I hated it when Atlas was considered for National Boxing Czar, it seems like he's lobbying to become the USA Boxing czar. I actually wouldn't mind it.

 

Do you know when was the last time the US only had 1 Olympic boxing medallist?

 

I think they've been saying 1948

 

1948 is correct. One fighter won a silver.

Both squads (1948 and 2008) only had eight fighters participate - '08 would've had nine but Gary Russell Jr. couldn't shrivel down to bantamweight in time (nor should he have been forced to, but that's for another day).

 

Thanks for the info, that really is a long time.

By the way, they said today the judges have to press the button within ONE second of each other, which is what I thought, not 3 seconds as someone suggested earlier.

 

right - the rule is that at least 3 of the 5 judges have to push within 1 second of each other.

Also, punches that go unscored but still get entered by at least one or two judges count in the fight-ending tiebreaker (countback) if it comes to that. At that point, they throw out the highest and lowest score (a punch where all five judges pressed would be highest, and a punch where only one judge pressed is the lowest) and then add up the remaining tallies, at which point the person with the highest tally wins.

If that's tied, then it goes down to each individual judge voting for who they had winning overall. I think that's how Zou Shiming won his Round of 16 bout. One fighter did, I'm pretty sure it was him.

 

Great day for the Irish, Barnes will likely have to settle for bronze but Egan should feel confident of proceeding....and we still have Sutherland...a great return for the increased investment in the amateur sport in the last 6 years or so...

 

I agree, Zhang didn't look too bad, though for a 6'7 fighter of his size it was a bit odd to see him rarely using the jab, moving backwards and basically counterpunching much of the fight...even though he did it with some very good effect.

But I've seen a number of fighters with that style, especially from some of the Asian and Eastern European countries, so I guess it shouldn't be that surprising to see heavyweights with it, as well.

It also brings something else to mind...and that is that the lack of jabs has been one of the themes in this Olympics. It's sort of understandable, given that it's not a punch that will always score in and of itself. It's not used to set up other punches, which is a major disconnect between amateurs and pros.

I did finally watch David Price yesterday. Not the most fluid athlete, a bitstiff and rigid on his feet, but at 6'7 with a relatively straight jab and right hand, he's not a horrible pro prospect. He could have some success because he's awkward but effective.