olympic scoring sucks

I guess you are correct, if we break it down nationally (USA based) or internationally.

From the 2000 Olympians that won a medal Taylor, Erdei, Kotelnik, Sidorenko, Asloum also won world titles. At least five could be considered legit top 3 fighters at their respective weight. Kraj will win the WBC cruiserweight world title shortly.

From the other participants Miguel Cotto, Felix Sturm, Ivan Calderon, Omar Narvaez, Ponce De Leon, Valdemir Pereira, Michael Katsidis, Hugo Garay, Jeff Lacy, Ruslan Chagaev, Sultan Ibragimov have won world titles.

From the 2004 medalists I´d say Ward, Gamboa, Khan and Povetkin are locks to win a world title eventually. To early to tell what Solis, Golovkin and Yalcinkaya can achieve.From the other participants JuanMa Lopez has already won a world title.

So at best I would expect a maximum of 8 fighters from the 2004 class to win a world title, while only one has so far. Meanwhile 16 fighters !!!, (plus a 17th is a lock) from the 2000 class have won a world title. Matter of fact the class of 2000 is looking very strong.

 

Don't count the WBO belt and see where your numbers really stand.

 

Why?

WBA champ Cotto lost to a former WBO titlist. IBF champ Pereira wouldn´t last two rounds with WBO titlists Lopez or Ponce. We have all seen how IBF champ Lacy did against WBO champion Joe Calzaghe. WBO titleholder Narvaez has beaten the WBA titlist Asloum. WBO champion Erdei fought the WBA champion Garay on even terms (2-0 on the scorecards). I don´t see a difference between a WBO champion or any other champion anymore. So it really doesn´t matter.

 

I didn't think that he was limiting the statement to US boxers. It doesn't read that way, imo.

 

I didn't initially write it that way, but yes that's what I meant. US team in particular.

 

But How Many HISTORICALLY, "All-Time Great" STRONG Fighters R we Seeing from the Class of 2000-2004???...

From 2000, Cotto's THE ONLY Fighter w/a CHANCE to Register N an "All-Time Great" Sense...The 2004 Class LOOKS More Promising (Gamboa, Ward &/or Dirrell, JuanMa, etc.), but it REMAINS to B Seen what they Do...

HISTORICALLY, Olympic Classes USUALLY Produce MORE "All Time Great" Fighters than the Last 2 Versions have...


REED:mj:

 

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This is just changing the name of the game until you think you have a point that sticks as you lose along the way.

All time great fighters are usually not determined in the first 7 and 3 years of their careers. For every Jirov who peaks early, there is a Tarver who peaks late.

 

If a Fighter HASN'T Shown "All Time Great" ABILITY N the 1st 7 Years of his Career, it's DOUBTFUL that it'll Emerge @ Any Point AFTER that...

Antonio Tarver was a LATE 20's Olympian (26-27-28) & he was THE FACE of the 96' Olympic Team...

REED ISN'T Soooooo Sure that Tarver "Peaked Late", it's just that his STYLE is Such that it Allows him to Age GRACEFULLY...He's Counterpunching SOUTHPAW w/1 Shot Power & Underrated DEFENSE...U can Get ALOT of Mileage Out of that Type of Style, as Tarver has...


REED:mj:

 

I thought 15-0 was outclassing?

Poor Aussie. Throwing over 100 punches around, 0 points in 3 rounds.

 

I guess what I meant about Tarver peaking is when he had his quality wins. As I look at his record, I would rate his best performances as:

Jones 2 2004
Jones 1 & 3 2003 & 2005
Johnson 2 2005
Griffin 2003

2000 looks pretty solid so far, as ElT pointed out.
2004 is going to end up being strong, too, i suspect. The defecting Cubans almost assure that. I think Dirrell projects to be a p4p guy.

If we turn it into a US olympians vs world olympians, then sure, the US doesn't do so great with its olympians in the pros, but that is just consistent with their showings in the olympics.

 

You can get even more mileage when you spend your entire career fighting more than three times per year. Pushing 40, 11 years in and he's only had 31 fights to date.

mikE, I agree that 2004 class looks strong from a worldwide perspective. I knew that Joe meant the US squads when he made his comment, which is why I responded the way I did.

But regardless of what happens around the globe, the state of the game in the States will continue to decline so long as it's forced to rally around stars from around the globe rather than its own backyard. Shaw made a smart move by partnering up with Arena Box, now serving as promoter of record for all US-based bouts for Gamboa and Solis. Even smarter that he passed on their feather-fisted stable mate Yan Barthelemy, who brilliant (sic) Golden Boy matchmaker Eric Gomez already managed to get beat.

 

SPOILER

























End of the road for US boxer Javier Molina, a lot of grunting like Juan Diaz, Georgiev is a very strong amateur
Demetrius Andrade takes a close decision, 11-9, looked very sloppy albeit an awkward opponent

 

Germany was robbed. These judges are :shit::shit: Even figure skating is more objective. Culcay will make a good pro though. :bears::bears:

 

That's true but the lack of success by the medalists in general is very apparent.

 

Barthelemy getting beaten is probably the front-runner for upset of the year. It has to top my previous leader (Oscar Pereyra getting outfought by a journeyman), particularly since I was about the only one hyping Pereyra, haha.

Boxing has the world intrusion problem that other sports like tennis do and I agree that it is a real problem for boxing's popularity in the US.

I am hopeful that the US money keeps fighters basing themselves in the US (sort of like Germany grabs fighters), and the Hispanic success keeps the sport strong in the US, too.

Unfortunately, the cure-all is a dominant US heavyweight with some charisma. A Tyson or Ali is worth about 3 Leonards or Delahoyas as far as the overall popularity of the sport goes in the US.

 

Who can take this corrupt bullshit seriously? German Culcay Keth scored a knockdown and beat his oppoennt up in the 3rd round, in an alleged 11-11 tie and they gave the win to the Korean based on the overall dominant performance. I mean honestly. I might bet on all the chinese fighters to win the gold medals. :flip::flip:

 

You know beating up a guy or knocking him down isn't what AM boxing is about, so why point to it as proof of corruption?

 

Because the bout was a points draw, so the winner is voted upon by the judges. So how can the guy, who hurt his opponent and knocked him down, be the objective/subjective loser? How is that possible? It´s scandalous.

 

The tie-breaker is adding up the punches landed by the 3 middle judges for each fighter. It's not a survey of who the judges thought won.

 

how can you possibly defend this system?

You claim it rewards strong clean punches, yet a grand total of 10 bodypunches have been counted in the entire games thusfar

You claim it is as objective a criteria as possible, yet its clear running slappers get preference

You claim its fair, when I've counted multiple fights so far where the "wrong guy" has been given the most points/decision.

I know robberies happen, and the scoring is trying to be as fair as can be, but the scoring is nonsense, and I'd say 1/3 of the punches that are landed are actually being counted with this system in place.

 

Body punches might be getting neglected more than in the past. Of course, people bitched about it when it wasn't necessarily true.

Clear running slappers do not get preference. Disagree with you on that one.

Name the fights where the wrong guy won. I've only seen a couple. That tie you mention was the one that sucked. That's the only one I've seen so far and that's just a casualty of the system.

Scoring overall does seem to be less than last olympics. I haven't noticed it being determinative as to who wins, but it is less. Probably has to do more with the witch hunting about corruption than it does with the judges' abilities.

For example, if I don't push the button I can say I had a bad view.
If I do push the button, you can show me that the punch didn't land.
This should equal fewer punches being scored since the judges are all worried about getting accused of being corrupt. By people like you, I might add.

 

Did anyone else see that Australian guy (Kidd?) vs the Morrocan guy?

The final score ended up being 22-2 even though the Australian threw 100 punches per round. The crowd went crazy when he finally "scored" a point.

 

The Romanian kid theyre showin now makes a million and one mistakes, yet he's kicking ass. So much instinct and experience.

 

Yep. The PR kid needs Tito power to get out of this one sided beatdown.

 

Unfortunately, as they're interviewing Molina's brother, there's a f'n brawl going on in the ring. These kids are throwing bombs.

 

Molina's up right now. Man, he's getting tagged. Great jab though. He's having trouble with his headgear, but this Bulgarian kid has great ability to get in and out of Molina's smaller range.

 

Damn. He got dropped. Wow. They scored a body shot!

 

He's getting picked apart. He's not a very active fighter. Sometime's you just gotta throw.

EDIT: Another body blow scored.

 

That's too bad. The kid's only 18. Not sure if he intends to go pro right away. I think he should stick around in the ammys a bit.