One of the best things about Pavlik

One thing not good for Pavlik was the rating for his fight Saturday. He set the all time low rating for WCB against Lockett.

 

He also KTFO of Taylor who has beaten HopsX2.
I like the way Pavlik fights. I'd give a very slight edge to Joe, but if I knew the fight was gonna end in a K.O win, I'd be tipping Pavlik as the most likely winner.

 

Don't agree.
Hop's showed his "bitch"-side, & by extension was "Joe's bitch" in their fight

 

Not as mean? :laughing:
I wont even speculate into that one. Kessler hits harder than Pavlik and would kill this guy from the outside, Underrated defense my arse, Pavlik has been a sucker for the right hand and that is Kesslers best shot.
I didn't see any stink I saw Calzaghe beat Kessler decisively in a world caliber fight.
I expect Pavlik to get brutally KO'ed within the next year, especially if he moves to 175 to fight Joe. To me it's an HBO ruse, no way Kelly gets anywhere near Joe C.

 

Exactly right.

In order to beat Joe, you need to make him come and look for you and then make him miss. You also need to be quicker to the punch and to hit hard enough to stop him.

Pavlik:

a) Comes forward looking to KO his opponent and he does so relentlessly. He has never shown any inclination to start fighting off the backfoot, ever. hat's what makes him such a great fighter to watch and a hard fighter to beat.

b) Isn't quick or elusive enough to make Calzaghe miss. Kelly has good speed, but he isn't exactly elusive- he's always happy to take a few to land a few.

c) Hits HARD for a 160lb-er, but is completely unproven power wise at 168lb where Joe has rarely been KD and never been KO'd. The Taylor rematch saw Pavlik hitting Taylor flush on a number of occasions, but he couldn't finish him as he did at 160lb. There are definite question marks in my mind over whether or not Pavlik carries his power to 168.

There is a blueprint for beating Joe. Unfortunately for him, Kelly Pavlik is near enough the complete opposite.

MTF

 

I like Kelly a bunch - he made me a fan early and about the only thing that surprised me about the first Taylor fight was the fact that he got dropped. So I was very surprised at his performance in the rematch. Kelly Pavlik's got some flaws I don't hear anyone talking about. Glaring ones.

We know he's a murderous puncher. And he's got skills with it. But I think sometimes we get wrapped up in the euphoria of the KO. Pavlik has shown a fair amount of vulnerability in his last two fights (not counting the Lockett mismatch). And a guy like Joe Calzaghe will be looking at that.

I don't think Jermain Taylor hits as hard as Joe Calzaghe.

I don't think Jermain Taylor can box as well as Calzaghe.

I don't think Jermain Taylor is as strong as Calzaghe.

I don't think Jermain Taylor is as experienced as Calzaghe.

And finally...I don't think Jermain Taylor has anywhere near the ring intelligence Calzaghe has.

But there was Jermain Taylor in the first fight, a punch away from making Pavlik a pretender but couldn't muster up the intelligence or energy (in the f*cking SECOND ROUND) to put him away.

And, in spite of what revisionist history tells me, I know what I saw in the rematch. A damn close fight won in the championship rounds.

Kelly Pavlik beat Jermain Taylor because he could take and could dish out more. Joe Calzaghe brings a lot more to the table and if Pavlik thinks he's gonna push him around, he's in for a big surprise. And if he can't push him back, what's he gonna do? Outbox Calzaghe? When you see him try to do that, you know he's lost. As skilled as Pavlik is, Calzaghe is just as skilled; cognizant of all the little nuances in the ring that separate a Floyd Mayweather from a Zab Judah. And he's a big, strong guy who's been giving and taking against bigger guys than Pavlik. And he himself is pretty big for his division.

"The Ghost" isn't ready for that. And he would get stopped trying. Against Taylor the second time, he kept coming forward until Taylor wilted. But he got tagged a lot. I'll have to watch the fight again but I didn't see too much adjustments aside from him trying to straighten out his right. He better be ready for a chess match in there against Joe. Because that's what it'll be when he realizes this isn't Edison Miranda or Fulgencio Zuniga.

 

Great minds...

Now if only you'd see the light regarding Roy.

 

I see a lot of people making a lot of assumptions as to why Hopkins reacted the way he did to those low-blows. I agree with none.

 

:crafty: ....I thought you said that you wouldn't be 'suprised' if Pavlik was stopped against Taylor pre-fight, I quite remember because you were one of only a very few who I agreed with unfortunately...:bangh:

 

No, dude. I don't think so. In fact, I went back and ran a search and the only thing I saw were your poems about Taylor LMAO. Unless you saw different, this is what I said after the Spinks bout:

Doesn't sound like a guy picking Taylor to KO anybody, does it? Here's what I said about the rematch:

Yup.

 

Joe C is so overrated.. all these people on his nuts..

basically he stayed in germany and fought bums then finially comes to the US and almost gets stretched by an old timer

Pavlik would SMOKE his ass

 

:: ::

 

dsimon writes:

Hopkins has had stamina problems which is why he fights in a measured way.He had the same problem against Taylor and won that fight.

Joe didn't cause that imo it was Hops getting tired. I can't think of any punches in that fight that Joe landed that had any noticable effect on Hopkins.

Yeah I can see why Joe could get that decision... but his punches were shit and he did not look good against Hopkins.

In the final analysis one guy got rocked and one guy got marked up and neither guy was Hopkins. Hopkins just can't throw a lot of punches anymore but his shots were effective.

 

dsimon writes:

Like I said to Barron, one guy got rocked in that fight. One guy got hit cleanly in that fight and obviously so.

Hopkins got tired and yeah thats a victory of sorts for Calzighe. :dunno:

 

dsimon writes:

:::bears::bears:

Everybody talks about Pavliks vulnerability against Taylor... Pavlik was inexperienced and yeah he fucked up ih is first major fight. So Cotto fucked up against Torres, shit happens.

yet nobody talks about how Hopkins almost stretched Joe who barely slapped his way to a victory against Hopkins.

 

thank you :bears:

Pavlik stretched Taylor

Bernard dropped Joe C like a sack of potatoes

Bernard never really hurt Taylor

Pavlik hits MUCH harder than Bernard and faster AND has much more energy/stamina

 

dsimon writes:

By the way read the Shilestone article on another thread. He had some very interesting comments about the Hopkins Calzighe fight and I agree with him.

 

I think Hopkins had Taylor more hurt in their first fight than he ever hurt Calzaghe.

Just my opinion.

 

No chance...

A prime Roy beats Joe easily. This version of Roy is in desperate trouble if he fights Joe. And I do mean, DESPERATE trouble.

MTF

 

Ignoring the bit about Joe being a 'German based fighter'... ::

Pavlik does NOT hit much harder than Hopkins. Pavlik fights at 160, and his power didn't carry to 168 when he hit Taylor flush in the rematch.

The shot Bernard hit Joe with was a combination of a flush shot and a balance shot. Joe was up and ready by the count of six.

Bernard is quicker than Pavlik. Pavlik is a great fighter, but he is not a particluarly quick puncher. Certainly, his handspeed is lesser than Calzaghe's.

Pavlik is a 30/70 dog in my eyes if this fight happens, but to win, he has to stop Joe early. That is his best chance.

MTF

 

I only hope we get the chance to bet on this one..

I give Joe C some credit, he whupped bernard.. but still really over his career hasn't done shit.. he slaps like a girl and boxes in an amatuer style..

Pavlik is young, fast and cracks hard and often..

a lot of guys say "so and so is relentless" but Pavlik really is a good pressure fighter..he does not get discouaged when things are not going his way.. as does Joe.. I think it'd be a great fight.. let me even say an EPIC WAR.. where both guys show just how good they are but IMO in the end it would be Joe getting dropped multiple times and Enzo throwin in the towel

 

::::

You ALWAYS predict that Calzaghe, whoever he is fighting, will get dropped multiple times. Your prediction was that Hopkins would drop him six times, if I recall... ::

Agreed that it would be a great fight- it is THE fight to be made at 160/168 right now. Pavlik is a great fighter, fabulous to watch and has a live shot early if his power carries or if Joe has declined much further.

Either way, you know I'll be willing to take your bet if the fight is made. We are level at 1-1 at the minute, and if this fight happens, the last sig I gave you will look like a mere trifle, Brother LOK :crafty:

MTF

 

dsimon writes;

Hopkins did drop Calzighe. And he threw the harder punches also. And he could have won that fight if it had been judged a certain way. Hopkins made Joe look flawed.... And yeah I can see a case for why Joe won that fight also, but fact is that brother Lok was not far off on this one!

 

What way? The way they rob legitimate winners?

 

Yeah, he did drop Calzaghe, but he sure didn't drop him SIX times and he sure didn't win the fight!!

Hopkins and Pavlik are like chalk and cheese. For every backward step Bernard takes, Kelly takes a forward one. That is why he can't win this fight.

MTF

 

dsimon writes:

Actually read the shilestone thread. His comments are very insightful. Amatuer based rules that consider the amount of punches thrown is one way to judge a fight, the effectivness of punches is another. At least one judge saw this view enough that they gave the fight to Bernard, who the boxing establishment had never liked anyway.

Your a fool if you think a case can't be made that Hopkins won that fight... Yes a case can be made for Calzighe as well, I don't dispute that.

 

dsimon writes:

We will see. Before the Hopkins fight I would have agreed with you.

 

:laughing::laughing:

 

I would loooooove to see Pavlik - Hopkins,.. Pavlik has the perfect style to murder that stink, and lovely, lovely body shots to apply.

 

..

you should'a seen me during the Hops fight.. :mj: when Hops dropped him.. I just was hoping he'd get up and Hops could drop him 5 more times::