Ortiz vs. Maidana

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After all the whining you do about others being sarcastic and talking down when they respond to you, you post this??

Hello Mr Pot...Mr. Kettle has something to say to you... ::

 

Ortiz didn't take any REAL punishment till round 5...then he quit in round 6....gotta question his heart...but not his chin...the chin is solid...

 

agREED...

Ortiz's Chin ISN'T Granite, but it's Solid...The Loss Really had NATHAN to Do w/Ortiz's Chin or Lack Thereof...


REED:mj:

 

So you agree that Hopkins is better than Pavlik? Cool. :bears:

 

::

 

Was Hearns the better man on the evenings when he was KTFO by Barkley?

 

Barkley was the Better Man on THOSE PARTICULAR Evenings...But Iran Barkley AIN'T Better than Tommy Hearns, Dude...Shit, Leon Spinks Managed to BEAT Muhammad Ali...Does that Make HIM Better???....



REED:dunno:

 

Weird, Double L ducked my post.

 

Uh, I was a smart-ass about it. I can't deny it. But this business of the better man having lost, especially considering he quit on his feet, feels ridiculous. I thought I was doing the best job I could at making that point.

 

No. I agree that Hopkins was better on the evening that he fought Pavlik. I'm not ducking your post. It doesn't conflict with any of my arguments nor does it establish that Hopkins is a better fighter than Pavlik (although he probably is in this landscape unenforced rules in which clinching, low-blows, elbows and head-butts are allowed).

 

Ortiz can say all he wants about fighting stupid, or fighting the wrong fight, but until he procures a rematch with Maddiana and managed to win it, he cannot be considered the better fighter. That's simply ludicrous. If he were the better fighter, he would've won the bout.

 

:dunno:

Yet U Sooooooooo READILY Accept the Idea that Ortiz ISN'T Better than Maidana OR that Tommy Hearns ISN'T Better than Iran Barkley???...Hearns & Ortiz were MORE COMPETITIVE in their Losses than Pavlik was Against Hopkins...

REED:notallthere:

 

Was Forrest the better man the night he was knocked out by Mayorga? In their first fight? Hell no.

 

Doub can B ALARMINGLY Hypocritical @ Times...It's as if he's OBLIVIOUS to it...


REED:hammert:

 

No, But Forrest has ALWAYS Been a BETTER FIGHTER than Mayorga....


REED:hammert:

 

huh? he barely made it out of round 1. his legs were gone after the right hand he took. i'd call that REAK punishment.

Madiana established himself in the very first round a dangerous threat and fought on roughly even terms until he battered Ortiz into quitting.

Even the knock-downs Maiana suffered subsequent to round one from the right hooks didn't hurt him. Punishment-wise, I'd say he got the best of Ortiz in almost every round.

 

Considering where both are at in their respective career, I think it's safe to say Maidana proved to be the better fighter. Neither was proven enough to be regarded as the better man despite the defeat.

 

:atu:

you're a nincompoop

 

Hearns was not knocked out twice by Barkley. And Hearns had been sliding for quite a while when the rematch took place.

And do you REALLY think Barkley is a better fighter than Hearns. REALLY?? C'mon, Double. Don't let your need to be opposite get in the way here.

 

Agreed! This is a perfect example of my thought with Ortiz. I think he's the better fighter (More talented/Gifted) even though he lost Saturday night.

 

Man, what a fun fight this was!

This kid from Argentina has a lot of guts, he never gave up and he got the KO... good for him

 

In fairness, its impossible to compatre Ortiz in the better man category alongside Hearns, or RJ against Johnson etc..we've no idea how he'll turn out since its early days for him as a fighter, he may turn out to be one of those more talented fighters whose lack of intangibles doesnt take him over the line against less gifted but more instinctive, maybe tougher, fighters..which would make him the "lesser" man

 

Just watched again, its definitely pretty clear that mosely and fishnets aren't holding back with their, er feedback post-fight ::

 

It's a natural thing for promoters nowadays.

Gary Shaw basically answers questions for his fighters.

 

I meant that, even though its not clear whats said, both seemed not too please with ortiz immediately post-fight and made it clear to the guy

 

I thought an argument could be made for Maidana in every round except 2. The judges all had it 48-45 after 5 for Ortiz, however.

Does anyone know if they all got there the same way? I assume:
Maidana 10-9, Ortiz 10-7, 9, 9, and Maidana 10-9 in round 5 was how they get to that score.

Maidana is better than he fought against Ortiz; I'm not sure Ortiz is better, but he probably is, too. The difference is this: Maidana fighting better is not being stupid and leaving yourself open so much. That can be fixed pretty easily.

Ortiz fighting better is pacing himself better, not getting caught with long shots so often, and learning to jab. Those are not easy fixes.

 

I say his chin is solid. If it weren't, he never would have gotten up from the knockdown in the first round.

Was a hell of a shot.

 

Agreed.

 

I think Ortiz's biggest problem is that he was too honest on his interview after the fight. I have never heard anybody talk the way he did after a fight and that will hurt him more than quiting.

Let's not pretend the kid quit at the first sign of struggle. He got up twice from knockdowns, he was cut over the eye and was swelled up alot.

Sure I wanted him to continue and we all wan to see warriors. I guess he figured he had nothing left and to continue the fight it would just damage him long term.

I'm sure alot of fighters go through it but won't admit it. The fact that he is questioning his own carreer right now it's probably a good thing. Because he can't half ass it if he is gonna make this a carreer.