based on what? losing to a guy two weight classes above him having had bronchitis in addition to a shoulder injury - a guy who lost twice to a guy he beat decisively twice? there may not be evidence that he's great or special at this point. but there's certainly none to suggest he is not very good.
IMO you 2 really underrate the guy. So I guess until he proves to be either really good or really bad, the 3 of us will just have to go on with our own present opinions of him won't we?
bigger stronger guy poor chin/defense vs. fragile guy w/ questionable chin/defense..... i still take Pavlik...
Sure getting stun a few times by Quintana has to count for something.....is Pavlik chin bad cause he got drop by Taylor?
Pavlik's been rocked and dropped before but he's recovered well. I don't think his chin is bad at all. It's just not great. I don't see how people can say he's not very good. He's at least good. You don't become the MW champ by not being any good. Guys that aren't good don't knock out Jermain Taylor either.
"Poor" Chin???:dunno:...No, Pavlik ISN'T Marvin Hagler, but he Certainly ISN'T Chinny Either.... agREED that Pavlik's Defense is EQUALLY as Bad as Williams', but Williams ISN'T a Puncher (Andy Kolle & Carlos Quintana Not Withstanding)...N a Battle of 2 VOLUME PUNCHING Guys w/Leaky Defenses, REED'll Ride w/the Naturally BIGGER Man, who's Also the BETTER Puncher... & that's Kelly Pavlik.... REED:hammert:
Remember the shots Margarito was landing on Williams? The sloth that is Margarito? Especially late in the fight. If that were Kelly Pavlik landing flush like that, Williams doesn't see the final bell.
Styles Make Fights, TAMster... Even Though REED DIDN'T Pick Bernad to BEAT him, it was EASY to See that BHop WOULD Give Pavlik a Great Deal of TROUBLE...ANY Fighter w/a Nice Set of WHEELS & GOOD Defense is Gonna Give Pavlik Problems... It May Turn Out that Pavlik ISN'T All That @ HIGHER Weights, but he's STILL a BEAST @ 160... REED:mj:
I agree. Even though Williams power may be better than advertised in the past--since the word has been he's been sitting down on his punches more--one still has to wonder how well his power translates to the higher weight classes and the better competition levels of a guy like Kolle.
If Williams is fighting Wright then I don;t see how he could be ducking someone like Clottey:atu: Wright is a bigger and better fighter than Clottey. Not to mention Williams will make more money against Wright. Lastly, I'd pick Wright to beat Clottey.
Wright has continuely turned down a Williams fight if I'm not mistaken. Fuck Wright anyway, I really don't want to see that prick fight anymore, he's become an absolute borefest.
Well, I figured Hopkins would probably hit Pavlik at will in that fight, but I don't remember people talking about his "set of wheels" prior to it. 160 is about as weak a division as there is in the sport right now.
N Terms of how QUICKLY he Manuevers, Pavlik's Footwork is Pretty POOR...Even @ 57 Years of Age, Bernard's is Anything BUT That... From Top to Bottom, 160 ISN'T that Strong...But w/Pavlik & Abraham, it's Definitely TOP HEAVY.... REED:hammert:
Clottey isn't exciting at all. It's funny you call Wright boring considering you like Clottey so much. I did some looking and I see nothing saying the Williams-Wright fight is off.
I agree about Pavlik's footwork. I've never been impressed with it. But few thought Hopkins could move like he did, prior to actually seeing him do it. It's top heavy in the sense that Pavlik and Abraham appear to be much better than most of their "competition", so the gap is wide between them and the "contenders", but I don't think that necessarily means they're great fighters.
I agree. He has a lot of talent but out of the ring and more importantly IN the ring, he is a fighter without a clear identity. I'd like to see him sit down on his punches more, I just get a sense there is a lot of untapped power there... he makes his fights more difficult than they have to be sometimes... he needs to use his freakish height more than he does and sit down on some of those shots... I like the way he avenged his loss, it was swift and decisive. Consistency eludes Williams but he has big talent and there isn't a welterweight in the world that I would make a decided favorite to beat him
Yeah, now he can. Which would cause the overrating of him to hit sky high. A prime Forrest would've beaten the bejesus outta Tall Paul.
Of course I meant now, not prime. Yeah Vernon would have punked him then. Paul beats Margarito by 1-2 rounds, that's hardly dominating. Quintana owned him in their first fight and I give that more credibility than the first round KO in the rematch.
It's a matter of opinion. Wright wasn't always boring but as he's gotten older and more of a sloppy brawler, he's just ugly to watch and boring. IMO. I'm not going to defend Clottey, obviously he's a very disliked fighter on this board and I can understand that. He obviously deserves zero credit for beating Corrales and Judah and hasn't done much else. Just don't y'all hop on the bandwagon if he does beat someone good.
