Question for boxing historians

REED why are you wasting your time discussing this silly topic? Don't give the young guy any more attention.

The biggest, most hyped Middleweight fight in history was Hagler-Leonard, which Leonard won.

By Jaws' logic, Leonard should be considered a greater middleweight. :doh:

It's futile to try to discuss anything with someone that has such juvenile logic....

 

great comparison. An old hagler who had just struggled with Mugabi, and came off his own 15 month layoff to take on leonard who hadn't fought in 3 years.

Ali was not coming off a 4 year lay-off, that is one of the true Ali myths. He had fought two top 10 guys within a span of a year before taking on Frazier, it isn't like Frazier was his first fight in 4 years. How many guys get credit for ring rust even though they've gone some 20 rounds in the past year?

Show me where I said Frazier should be considered a greater HW, and you'd maybe have a point.

As for this Ali loving that swirls the brains of the indecent, REED where did I say Ali was the ultimate loser. I just said people consider him some paramount and unbeatable HW, and its just not true. He might have lost to Doug Jones, he made bums like Henry Cooper and Karl Mildenberger look decent, he lost to Norton at least twice, lost to frazier.

People say he looked awesome against a 44 year old Cleveland Williams. CLEVELAND WILLIAMS?!?...Or he sure did a number on Liston, and forced him to retire on his stool. Did Chris Byrd force Vitali Klitschko to quit on his stool, or did Klit just get injured?...and yet its one of Ali's biggest wins.

There is an enormous disparity by most between the credit and excuses they give for Ali, and the lack of common sense and explanations they give for his opponents. Fact is Foreman was tailor-made for Ali, he had his biggest troubles against guys who could jab. Frazier, when Ali did beat him close twice, was blind in one eye and coming off the biggest battering on earth against foreman.

its just all fluffy bullshit when it comes to ali. He is the greatest HW ever, he does have alot of grea wins and fantastic skills for a HW. But his career isn't as spectacular as some make it out to be, and he certainly wasn't unbeatable.

 

Speaking of "Fluffy BULLSHIT",U're Relying on PLAYED OUT,INCORRECT Cliches N Reference to Ali...

Ali DID NOT Lose to Doug Jones...WATCH the Fight...It was a 10 Round Fight & REED can Point Out 6 Rounds that Ali CLEARLY Won...Whenver U Wanna Actually DEBATE that Fight,WATCH It 1st then Holla Back...

Comparing Ali's Win Over Liston to Vitali Klitschko-Byrd is ASSININE even by YOUR Standards:: ...Arguably,Ali DIDN'T Lose a Single Round N that Bout & he STAGGERED Liston a Few Times & Swole Up 1 of his Eyes...By the Time Liston QUIT,Winning WASN'T an Option for him...On the Other Hand, Klitschko was BEATING Byrd Rather HANDILY @ the Time of the Stoppage...

That just MIGHT B THE WORST Fight Comparison REED has EVER Heard...

Not Sure if U're TROLLING or if U REALLY Feel Strongly about your Opinions, but for Your Own Sake,PLEASE Stop:: ...It's Better to B SILENT N your Ignorance than to B LOUD & IDIOTIC w/the Shit....



REED

 

Ali arguably didn't lose a round against liston? There's 6 clear rounds in the doug jones fight?

typical Ali loving nonsense

 

I didn't see the "robbery" in Ali-Jones. I had it 6-3-1 for Ali. The crowd went nuts whenever Jones threw a shot within the vicinity of Ali. I don't see how people say Jones won that.

That's like the opposite of Ali-Shavers. I don't see how people say Ali deserved that win. I had it 9-6 Shavers, and I don't think that fight was especially difficult to score either. Shavers got robbed.

 

People that Say that TODAY Do So Because they've NEVER Seen the Fight,yet READ or HEARD that Doug Jones was Robbed...They THINK it Makes them Look like "Knowledgable" Boxing Fans,to CLING to a BOGUS Myth they've Read about...

REED has PERSONALLY Exposed a Few Posters on this Fight ALONE...REED Whips Out his DETAILED Round by Round Account of the Fight & it Works like a CHARM...Shit is FOOLPROOF::

Until REED Actually SAW Clay-Jones HIMSELF (4-5 Years Ago) REED ASSumed Jones was Robbed as Well...

Ali CLEARLY Won 6 of the 10 Rounds...There's NO WAY Jones won the Fight:nono: ...



REED

 

Can't we compromise..


Ali lost the biggest fight of his career on a level playing field. He just ran into a hungrier, better man that night. Personally I don't think any version of Ali beats Frazier in Madison Square Garden on March 8th, 1971...

But Ali is still deserving of greatness as he won many other big fights and twice avenged his loss to Frazier.

 

fine with me, greatest heavyweight ever, but could be beaten by the right style

 

You nailed it.

 

It only took a few pages of BS to get it though and what was the point? To bitch? Any fighter can be beaten by the right style. Perfection is a fools belief in this business. Nobody has ever called Ali perfect.

 

If that's the crux of your argument, then we agree.Peace.

 

Exactly...

WHEN & WHERE Did Anybody Calle Ali "Perfect" or "Unbeatable" ???:dunno:

Even the Greatest HEAVYWEIGHT Ever had Exploitable Flaws...Nobody Suggested Otherwise...


REED