Rafael Marquez vs. Juan Manuel Marquez

Marquez only had ring generalship in his favour, which combined with some decent, clean punching won him 5 rounds on my card.

Where were 7 rounds where manny's clean, hard punches coupled with effective aggression made him deserve the nod.

Marquez may have outslicked pacman in a few rounds, but he hardly controlled the pace, pacman was the one forcing the fight in most of the rounds, and pacman even won a couple of rounds boxing, using lateral movement and strafing marquez with jabs and straight lefts.

Marquez won on jabs, but pacman won hands down on power punches, watch the fight again and see just how many straight lefts manny lands.

Manny wasn't on great form, but he won that fight. I think he basically thought all he had to do was clock marquez proper once more, and that would be it, hence he got left hand happy big time.

 

Ohh! I get it now!

































:stir: ::

 

I have reason to believe you have lost this argument, failing to provide conclusive reasons for marquez winning more rounds and/or your scorecard for the fight.

See you next time Mr Baron.

 

Lost this argument? You're trying to bait me, don't you?

Seriously, I think I've been clear about it, I don't have my scorecard but after the second, Marquez landed the cleaner and more meaningfull punches, he controlled the pace and befuddled Pac who couldn't adapt to Marquez style. Most of the rushes he tried were welcomed with a nice stiff jab and even when he was landing, Marquez was almost always making sure he was getting the last word in their exchanges, and he did most of the time. From what I remember I had the fight 7-5 or 8-4 in rounds for Marquez but a draw on my scorecard. I'll try to rescore it but it won't change a damn thing, it's really too subjective a debate to win it. That's why we're still arguing this fight and people will still argue about it for years to come.

 

True, I think up till that point Pacquiao was destroying so many top guys that he fell in love with his power. He's corrected those flaws in recent years. Also people forget to mention this was Pac's 2nd fight in the weight class. He looked like and was the smaller man that night. Queerquez had a size advantage that Larry Merchant even pointed out on air.

I agree that people underrated how many clean punches Pacman landed because they didn't see Queerquez falling on the ground with every blow like round 1. I think it was round 8 or round 9, Queerquez was seriously hurt again and wobbly, and even complained that his nose was broken in between rounds.

 

Good points, Pac DID seem to fall in love with his own power, like I said he kind of fought like all he had to do was land another turbo charged straight left and that would be the end of JMM. He was generally not fighting to win points.

It was pacman's raw talent vs marquez's skills and I still thought pacman won.

I actually saw the fight a couple of days after it happened, and I was expecting marquez to win on rounds from what people were saying.

And he didn't, people were being generous for marquez for his admirable comeback, and because they were expecting him to get thumped again any minute.

 

I had the fight 6 rounds to 6, with Pacquiao winning by four points. That was an easy fight to score and it was an absolute crime that two judges messed that up. One even having the nerve to score it for Marquez, which was disgraceful.

 

Indeed.

6 rounds a piece is fine, I have scored it twice and happened to give one more round to Pacman. I think his performance in that fight is underrated.

 

:clap:

 

I used to always put JMM above Rafa because of the skills. But over the years Rafa has improved alot in the skill department.

They are pretty close so it's hard to pick one. Both are champions in two divisions.

But when retired I think RAfa will be a 3 division champ. I don't know if JMM can be champion at 135.

They are pretty damn close.

 

I thought Pac won that fight by 3 points from memory. 6 to 6, with the KD's the difference.

I give alot of credit to Marquez, who boxed beautifully, but the simple fact is that Pac was still outlanding him, forcing the action and landing the harder punches in some of the rounds.

Thats what wins rounds. Sure Marquez made him miss and countered with some great shots, but for the most part Pac was still doing the better work.

This fight reminds me of Toney-Jirov, only in reverse. You have to give heaps of credit to Jirov for the way he fought, and he gave a great performance, but it still didn't win him rounds.

Having Pac- Marquez a draw is a real stretch in my opinion...it was one of those close but clear fights to me. There's no way Marquez won more than 7 rounds in that fight.

 

:bears: That's exactly how I feel about the fight.

 

people don't credit Marquez enough with the power shots he threw. Just cause Manny didn't get dropped don't mean he wasn' getting rocked on the ropes.

Even though JMM was countering all night he did manage to land alot of power shots on Manny. After the fight both looked like they ate alot of leather not just JMM.