Ring Magazine's new pound 4 pound list.

I don't see why, there are plenty of fighters throughout history who just happen to have another fighters number.

 

He didn't even "Have his number". The cuts turned it around. I have no problem with the stoppage but Vitali never cut before or since.

I think Lewis lucked out. He landed a shot that dragged across the eye and started the problems.

His best uppercut wasn't getting the man out of there.

And, even if it was the same, as you say yourself, nobody thinks less of Mosley cos he couldn't do anything with Forrest or anything less of Duran cos Hearns knocked his ass into the middle of next year.

In fact, if Lewis is Vitali's bogey fighter, he did a fuck of a load better than Duran and Mosley or Oscar did with theirs. :dunno:

 

I don't think Lewis has Vitali's number, for the record. I'm making the point that a fighter shouldn't be discredited because he lost against the one established great he came up against. Especially in the circumstances relating to Vitali's loss.

 

Lewis had the better career against the better opposition. If they had never fought he would be the logical favorite and higher ranking all time hw. So saying him actually losing to an old Lewis could be down to styles and "numbers" isn't really logical, is it?

 

You will never see a guy who LOST a fight so subjected to more, future, prospective LOSSES than Vitali.

it's like he didn't LOSE the fight BAD enough for some of these people, they need him to lose it again and again and again on the internet so they can sleep at night.

It's like somebody seeing something that is illegal and deciding that it needs to be MOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE illegal.

Morons.

 

What age was Vitali :dunno:

He had spent around 15 months out of boxing before this with serious injuries.

He then spent another 5 years out with another injury.

You are making out that this is the Vitali that blew out Hide in 2 rounds.

It's not.

 

I had always felt that a prime 100% Lewis beats Vitali. Stops him late in a competitive fight.

Now prime Bowe was all wrong for Vitali, IMO. Stylistically, I think it's a terrible match for him.

 

Bowe-Vitali would certainly be entertaining. Guaranteed war that one

 

I don't care about your tit for tat excuses. I'm talking about the irrational logic that the very best, arguably the only notable opponent of his career beating him may have just come down to styles...

 

Or it may have come down to cuts.

Lewis was the strongest and longest heavyweight of his era.

Holyfield and Tyson were midgets and the versions of them that Lewis beat, and upon whom so much of Lewis reputation is based, would have been far different challenges for Vitali.

Thus, the 250lb, 6.5" Lewis, with the big jab, Manny Steward and the 84" reach may have been "wrong" for Vitali, on 2 weeks notice, relative to the 6'2" Holyfield etc etc.

If you see the point :dunno:

 

Lewis is my favourite fighter but it was a fluke stoppage. The punch didn't land properly.

 

This is so true. The outcome of the Lewis fight has no bearing on fights with Holyfield or Tyson.

For the record, I personally believe Tyson beats him after A LOT of difficulty, but he beats Holyfield

 

Agreed McSlice.

It's patently obvious to any retard that losing to Lewis in that fashion has FUCK ALL to do with how he might have fared vs Holy or Tyson.

Basically American fans still think of Lewis as inferior to Tyson and Holyfield, and that's what they work off.

Historically, Lewis is inferior to Jack Dempsey. So what. It counts for shit in an actual fight.

Lewis had the height, strength and reach to negate Vitali's advantages.

People go on about how Lewis was "Heavy".........for what it is worth, I am not sure a 240lb Lewis fares any better.

In a 12 round fight, the weight would have been an issue. Not in a 6 round shootout. It aided Lewis in the attrition.

Extrapolating from the Lewis fight that Vitali lose to Holyfield is just plain fucking madness.

 

I always liked Vitaly and the way he controlled distance, avoided shots and constantly controlled his opponent. He always looked like a very good defensive fighter. But in the one fight against a fighter of a certain level he almost got his head knocked off. The image and style he put forward through his whole career against lesser fighters just wasn't there against his one grade A opponent.

That doesn't discount him against anybody but it puts his career in perspective like any bodies against their best opponent.

 

Vitaly Utilized the SAME Manner of Defense as Ali (w/LESS Mobility, Obviously), Who You CRITICIZED in that Regard, on Another Thread...

Backing Up in a Straight Line, Leaning Back, Hands by the Sides...





REED:hammert:

 

Nope. Study the Sanders fight, Vitali leaned on the ropes and made the guy miss whilst getting off his own counters.

Vitali was typecast in the early days as the big dumb white heavyweight who coud not fight backing up.

When it was all said and done.............it turned out he preferred guys to come at them so he could spin off and land his "counters".

Sometimes he leapt straight back, sure, but it wasn't his only or his preferred way of defending himself.

 

Ali looked like a very good defensive fighter at times. He was a good defensive fighter overall. As was Vitaly. Not all time defensive fighters p4p fighters though, imo. Not necessarily because of the style they used but the results as I see them.

 

Ali and Vitali were not about defense. We can agree on this. But they could get out of the way of shots, for sure, when the mood took them. I don;'t recall Vitali blocking too many shots on his arms. He preferred to tuck his chin in behind his shoulder and sway or step off.

 

When you say the one great opponent he fought and lost to "just had his number" you're implying he'd probably slap around all the other great hw's like he did his scrubby opponents with his masterful use of range and ring generalship. And it was all just a big misunderstanding that the one great fighter he fought damn near punched his head off and the fight didn't look like his other 60 fights at all.

 

We're not implying it. In fact if anyone is implying anything, its the people who say "Well he lost to Lewis, so................"

The so-called "One Great Fighter" in question, Lewis, was unique.

I think it is no great stretch to say that the physical advantages Lewis enjoyed would have been ABSENT for Holyfield, Tyson, Moorer, etc.

 

I'm not implying that at all. In fact I don't even believe the "had his number" thing to be the case as I mentioned in a follow up post. I'm saying that because he lost to the one great fighter he faced (in fairly unique circumstances at that) it doesn't automatically exclude him from beating other heavyweights who are held in the same esteem as Lennox, because as the cliche goes, "styles make fights".

 

I'll nitpick. Akinwande was longer, 86" reach.