Ron Lipton Really Hates Arthur Mercante

REED's Actually Interviewed a Referee on the Subject of KNOWING a Fighter's Tendencies to the Point of Giving 1 MORE Leeway than the Other...The Ref was Richard Steele & He Basically Said that the LESS Footage he Watched of a Fighter, the More IMPARTIAL he Could B...

http://www.northtexasboxing.com/articles/reed/steele.html

This Interview is Damn Near 2 YEARS Old...

REED:mj:

 

What would happen more often than not if refs started going by records and fight film is fights stopped much more soon than they would have been. I'm a boxing fan and I don't want that.

As for Yuri Foreman, at the round 7 mark, he was still in the fight. THAT is why the fight continued and was stopped when it was.

 

No, Manny though Mercante came to the wrong corner to have the mouthpiece cleaned off. Mercante was explaining to Manny WHY he brought it to his corner.

By the way, I watched the fight again after this thread specifically to watch Mercante. Hilarious how he was telling Foreman to walk it off. I think I will agree that it's not his place to give that advice.

 

That guy is a total joke. Screw him. You'll never meet referees more caring for fighters than Smoger and Mercante. And you won't find many(I'll say zero) fighters that don't like them.

 

:atu: Thank you for posting that photo. I got kicked off the forums at Cyberboxingzone for arguing with that odd dude.

At the time he was on one of his many rants about Arthur Mercante Sr. and how Mercante got him blacklisted from refereeing in New York. (Lipton was never clear why, although the more I hear from Lipton the more I tend to believe Mercante Sr. had his reasons).

And Lipton rambled on and on about how he had no money because he couldn't referee. Like others have said, he also ripped every referee who ever made a mistake a new asshole ... like he'd never made a mistake himself in the ring.

I mentioned something in passing that instead of complaining maybe he shoudl just get "another job" or move to another state where he could referee. After all, there are plenty of state commissions and countries all over the globe that could use referees. Well, he went nuts.

So I mentioned that Mercante Sr. was a legendary referee and Lipton wasn't any more well known than Vic Drakulich, and that didn't sit too well, either. (Though it's true.)

On top of that, he kept posting photos of himself without a shirt on flexing his muscles, and talking about all his sexual escapades, and I just had to call a spade a spade. I questioned why the admins were giving this wack job his own threads and letting him badmouth everyone who questioned him. That got me booted. I figured the people running the site might eventually realize what an oddball he was. I guess it takes some people longer to figure it out than others.

Side note:Steve Smoger is about the best there is right now.

RIP Mercante Sr.

 

Fair.

 

Don´t care who this guy is, but what Mercante did was fuckin bullshit. Foreman was getting outclassed when he had two knees and now he has a torn MCL or ACL or whatever, and he´s supposed to fight on? Mercante either had a bet on the over, or wanted to turn his supporting role into the main act. I think it was established that it was indeed Foreman´s corner, that threw in the towel and it was perfectly legit to protect their injured fighter. Who else would have thrown it? Cotto´s corner? So he had no reason to tell Foreman to continue. It was pathetic. :doh:

 

I just went over to Cyberboxingzone and Lipton is ranting about the Boxing Writers Association of America.

Everyone is out to get him, I swear to God.



Written by Ron Lipton:

I was a member of the BWAA, full voting member for the IBHOF in 1994.

I did not renew and recently applied through Tom Hauser.

You all know my background as a published boxing writer since the 1960's and as a historian.

He along with 6 voting member buddies turned me down.

I have a history with him going way back to 1991 and he wanted to be Chairman of the NYSAC with Mercante Sr and his partner. I am also suing the NYSAC Ron Scott Stevens his pal who he wrote about as being a great guy.

The pomposity, haughty cruelty of this is mind bending as he totally made a point of rejecting my boxing background, writings etc, leaving only himself and his friends as the boxing writing elite, Ali experts, boxing experts etc.

I have heard of this condescension before, anyone else experience this with the new BWAA?
you should see the submission I sent to Hauser that was turned down,

I know he did this to me with some help, we go back a long way.

When someone gives an "Expert" opinion on boxing on a HBO special lets say,
or a referee is chosen for a major title fight, do you ever ask yourself how mad and insane this world is as to who is running boxing?

Who would ever put Mercante Junior into the ring again, or some of the others who have fouled this sport up so badly it can hardly recover.

I know Tom, I know how he started, and I know who his friends are and how I had to be kept down. Its vicious, territorial and the pomposity and absurdity of it is mind bending as to being a boxing expert at all.
One fellow who they let in is Ryan Sonaglia (Spelling), now think about this.
When I was the manager of Snoops Boxing Gym and Chief trainer, this young kid came in who worked for Wendy's and would train with me and said he wanted to be a boxing writer, he would submit articles to Boxing Scene.

Hauser and company admitted this guy in and turned me down, now, I ask you, just think about that.

 

Didn't sound like that to me. Sounded like he barked at Manny, not "explaining" it to him.

Not important though, I just thought it was funny.

He annoys me with his pep talks and his persona, but he's not incompetent, so it could be worse. All you can really ask of your ref's is that they are competent at what they do, and I believe he is.

 

He definitely has a persecution complex.

The thing with Cyberboxingzone is a lot of the older guys over there know each other personally through the sport, and I think they feel some sort of an obligation to put up with his bullshit as an old-timer, former ref, boxing insider, whatever.

They really just don't know what to do with him. He doesn't realize how lucky he really is. He's gotten free legal representation, money and tons of free shit from the guys over there and he just keeps burning bridges.

Anybody with an ounce of salt would tell him to go fuck himself, including the Boxing Writers Association.

 

REED, it's your friggin interview and you misstate what Steele said:

NTB: Do you or other ref's have pre-fight rituals?
RS: I like to get some good work outs in, about 2 weeks before a fight. I'll run 3 miles, 4 days a week. Do some calisthenics. Go to some gyms and ref some sparring sessions. I'll go over my commands quite a bit. The thing about this job is you can't be what I call "a weekend referee" and you've got to be in shape. You also have to be aware of a fighters tendencies, whether he cuts and swells easily, whether he can absorb more punishment than most fighters, things like that. I'll usually watch a couple fights of both guys I'm about to ref, but not too much.


He does exactly what I said a ref should do...he takes into account a fighter's history when making judgment calls during a fight.

 

Exactly.

The correct move if you are the ref is not to ask a guy on camera if he wants to continue. These are pro, world-class athletes with huge egos. The vast majority are not going to admit they want to quit or that they don't think they should continue. Why? Because douchebags in real life, in articles, and on the internet will call them pussies and quitters for the rest of their life. So, of course, they say they want to keep fighting.

The correct move is to tell (threaten) the fighter that you are going to stop the fight because he can't go on like he is. If the fighter really believes he is okay to continue he better go ballistic because the ref has just informed you that he is stopping the fight. If you do go ballistic, then you'll probably get one more chance. If you don't go ballistic, the fight is getting stopped and no one will call you a quitter because you never said you wanted to quit.

 

You guys are way off base with this silly thread bashing Ron.

The guy knows more about boxing than anyone I have ever read, and has trained with the likes of Ali, Tiger, Ortiz, Hurricane Carter, Joe Frazier, and Leonard, among others.

He has the credentials to say whatever he wants to about boxing.

 

Ron is the one who went on record with all of this and we are responding. We the keyboard warriors have enough credentials to respond:cheer:

 

i'm not exactly sure what to say about mercante jr, but do any of you remember the fight he reffed between george jones and beethaeven scottland? i'm surprised this wasn't brought up.

 

Maybe this guy is Ron Lipton.

http://www.youtube.com/user/GardenFan1#p/u

 

Uuuuh, YOU Said the Ref Should've Recognized that Foreman "Punched like a Girl" & STOPPED the Fight, Right???...Do U Think Being UNDEfuckingFEATED was Part of Foreman's "History" that Mercante Should've Taken into Consideration???...

Is NEVER PREVIOUSLY LOSING a Fight a "Tendency" to YOU???...

Sorry, but YOUR Supposition COULDN'T have Been More OFFBASE, Especially Considering the Guy in Question had NEVER Lost a Fight...

Richard Steele's Quote IN NO WAY Agrees w/Your Sentiment, Dude...



REED:boohoo:

 

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And we all have the credentials to respond to what he said. No matter what experience he has, he is not beyond reproach if he says something ridiculous.

Every boxing fan on here has watched, written and possibly participated in boxing for at least a few years. That gives them all the "credentials" they need to form an opinion about a boxing related topic.

 

Mercante made the right call, Foreman was defending himself and wanted to continue, the only thing I didn't like is that it gave Foreman time to recover. And while Lipton critiscism of Mercante was weird ( as someone said earlier, he critiscized him for everything save his ''perfomance'' ), I heard numerous persons said that Mercante Jr. got the job because of daddy and that he isn't suited to be a ref. I lked the few I remember from Lipton, but I think he blew the call in the Morrison-Ruddock fight even thought it wasn't an easy one.

 

Being undefeated/having a title on the line are factors that may be relevant, but they aren't factors that Steele mentions. He mentions specifically physical factors and says "things like that."

If you think the fight should have gone on and the towell should have been ignored then fine. That's your opinion and I can understand why someone might share it. I think it was a bad call and a potentially dangerous call with only a speck of upside (i.e. a miracle). David Tua or Arthur Abraham want to continue under the same circumstances and I think it's far more justifiable to let them. Because those guys can end a fight in one punch and everyone knows it and the ref should know it. Just like he should know that Foreman can't. Just like Steele says he would know and take into consideration. Just like you tried to spin the wrong way.

 

REED Didn't Spin Anything the "Wrong Way"...As Usual, U Allowed your Perpertually CONTRARIAN View of Things to Rear it's LAME, PREDICTABLE Head...



REED:boohoo:

 

Then address my comments.

Steele advocated doing exactly what I said a ref should and you tried to spin it the other way by pointing to your own article. But the article itself contradicted the point you were trying to make. And you won't even admit it. You're so obsessed with trying to prove me wrong you don't pick your spots and you look like a chump.

So do you think the fight should have continued after Foreman's own corner tried to stop it?

 

REED ALREADY Addressed your LAME Brand of Contrarian BULLSHIT in Post # 48 of this Very Thread....

Uuuuh, YOU Said the Ref Should've Recognized that Foreman "Punched like a Girl" & STOPPED the Fight, Right???...Do U Think Being UNDEfuckingFEATED was Part of Foreman's "History" that Mercante Should've Taken into Consideration???...

Is NEVER PREVIOUSLY LOSING a Fight a "Tendency" to YOU???...

Sorry, but YOUR Supposition COULDN'T have Been More OFFBASE, Especially Considering the Guy in Question had NEVER Lost a Fight...

Richard Steele's Quote IN NO WAY Agrees w/Your Sentiment, Dude...

The ONLY 1 that Looks like a "Chump" Around Here is YOU, Consistently Attaching Yourself to THE MOST ABSURD of Opinions as the ONLY Means of Differentiating Yourself from the Otherwise Run-of-the-Mill Poster that U KNOW U R....

How About "Addressing" that RIDICULOUS Notion that JC Gomez was a GREATER Crusier than Evander Holyfield???

REED:mj:

 

You have the reading comprehension of a slow 2nd grader.

Do you (this means you, brainiac) believe the ref should have stopped the fight when the corner threw in the towell? (Stop. Before you go on with your inevitable, idiotic rants in your reply type in an answer to this question)

Personally, I think an undefeated record, that the title is on the line, what round it is should all come into play when a ref is making a determination about whether or not to override a towell, but I specifically pointed out that Foreman's lack of a punch should have been taken into consideration. Then Joe Dirt jumped in and said a ref shouldn't know anything because it makes him impartial. Then you jumped in with Steele's article which backed up my point about punching power almost directly and tried to spin it to a fighter's record which is far less similar than what Steele mentions.

And yet, you can't admit it when you are clearly wrong. Because you are simple.

As to the cruiser claim, I never said Holy wasn't the greatest, but I do think that he gets considered the greatest without any thought by (a lot of) those advocating it. He only fought for the title 6 times and I thought he lost the first bout against an undersized light heavy. But he's Holyfield and he gets called the greatest cruiser by default. JC Gomez has about twice as many title wins and no close calls. To think he shouldn't get any consideration is Reedesque stupid. That was my point. Not that you can understand it because it differs from the herd. And you are an unthinking sheep.

 

On the topic of whether forum members should be able to disagree with longtime referees or boxing personalities: sure, why not?

I've followed boxing since I was a kid although I really only got serious about watching regularly when I was in high school. I think that many people here have followed boxing for a long time, but more to the point---I think many adults can get a general fix or read on a person based on the way they conduct themselves.

However, I don't know Ron Lipton at all as a person, and I don't post at cyberboxingzone, so I don't read his postings. He might be a good guy or he might be jealous---who's to say?

 

U've ADMITTED to Only Becoming a Hardcore Fan in the 90's, so it's NOT Surprising that U UNDERESTIMATE Holyfield's Crusierweight Worth...It's Probably the Same Reason U're Actually an ADVOCATE of Having 53 "Champions" per Division Too...

Sorry, but NOBODY EXCEPT U Wonders Aloud about WHO the Greatest/Best Crusierweight in History Is or Was...

Going OUT of your Way to Find a LAME, UNFOUNDED Angle to Argue From DOESN'T Make U a "Deeeeep Thinker", it just Makes U a Purveyor of LAME, UNFOUNDED, CONTRARIAN BULLSHIT...

Funny U Compared REED to a 2nd Grader, because EVERY Messageboard Utterance of Yours is a JUVENILE PLEA for Attention...U're like the CLASSIC CASE of the MIDDLE Child Amongst Siblings, that Does or Says OUTLANDISH Shit, just to Stand Out...

Do Fightbeat a FAVOR & Kindly FUCK OFF...

REED:boohoo:

 

Way to respond, simpleton.

Do you think it should have been stopped when the towell came in?

 

Guys, don't ruin the thread by insulting each other, please. Debate the issue, not the person.