Round by Round..HBO TRIPLE HEADER

And going life and death with a Colombian unknown AUTOMATICALLY makes Angulo better?

 

Check Out Margarita's Record After 13 Pro Fights, then Holla Back...


REED::

 

Could U EMBELLISH MORE???...

That Fight was HARDLY "Life & Death"...If Anything, Angulo LOST Round 1, & Got Hurt Just Prior to STOPPING the Guy...

Angulo was WELL AHEAD on the Cards & KO'ed the Guy...

Not Sure How that's "Life & Death", but Whatever...


REED

 

Yeah, he was like 15 when he went pro.

 

And???

If U're NOT Ready, DON'T Turn Pro...

Simple as That...

Margarita had SEVERAL Losses After 13 Fights...Angulo has ZERO...So What EXACTLY Was your Point???...


REED

 

I just see that as an overly simplistic view of the matchup. "Yori Boy stunned him therefore Angulo will destroy him." That neglects the fact that Santos never went down and won the yori boy fight - and actually has notched some decent wins and competed at a high level in his losing matches.

stylistically - santos isn't an easy fight for anyone. he is a tall southpaw with good power, nice handspeed and well rounded experience as an amateur and pro. santos will continue to be underestimated, and would beat angulo amongst many other top jr. middles around right now.

dont see how he is overrated (i am the only one who has ever rated him highly to my recollection haha) - he is ranked #19 at boxrec, #14 at fightnews, #9 WBO and #1 WBA... and i bet he wins the WBA title if he gets a shot

 

sure doesn't appear that way when they tangle

 

The hype came from his seriously high level of competition for a rookie fighter (regardless of his age), in addition to his natural talent.

He has a lot of flaws that need to be corrected, and I'll admit that I was somewhat disappointed in his performance last night. But honestly, I see him doing better in five years than either Kirkland or Angulo, who are hella fun to watch, but who's styles are also crash-and-burn.

Basically, I believe Gamboa has better long-term potential than any other prospect today. Even with last night's performance, I stand by that claim. Kirkland and Angulo always have me anxious to see their next fight, but the types of flaws they possess aren't necessarily correctabe - and even if they are, does either possess a plan B when power and resillience isn't enough?

Gamboa might be a knockout waiting to happen; right now his biggest flaw is his own arrogance/self-confidence. But he's also a hell of a lot more resourceful than most other prospects. It's just a matter of righting his wrongs, which either happens as he grows, or remains easier said than done.

 

The bandwagoners are out of control. ::


Don't worry, as soon as some of these guys lose their "0" they'll be relegated to being called bums again whether they deserve it or not.

Angulo is a fun fighter but let's not get carried away yet in declaring him the equal or better then a battle tested guy who's fought the superior comp in a much longer career.

Angulo has zero D. Let's see how durable he is 20 fights from now.

 

my point was that having an unbeaten record after 13 fights does not make you better than a veteran world class pro that did not have an unbeaten record after 13 pro fights. Jhonny Ggonzalez lost his first TWO pro fights. Dwight Braxton lost his pro debut. Both went on to win world titles. There are dozens of boxers who go 13-0, and never ammount to much.

 

but more germane to this topic is the fact that Angulo is one to keep an eye on, whereas it took a very long time for Tony to reach such status.

It's worth arguing that Gutierrez is better than Margarito fought through the first eight or nine years of his career. Tony beat a few names, but guys WAY on the way down. Even if want to argue that Gutierrez is on the level of, say Rodney Jones, the difference is still that Angulo won, and Tony didn't.

Neil's correct that when it comes to training camp, Tony's the teacher, Angulo the student. But it stands to reason that Angulo has the greater upside ATM than Margarito did at least eight years into his career.

 

Wasn't Margarito only 23 or so when he fought Antonio Diaz on Showtime?

I don't see where Angulo at 25 is that much further along now than Margarito was then.

 

::

Margarito would decapitate him. Gutierrez's punches were sending him off balance. Margarito would back him into a corner and turn his lights out. :kick:

 

You say 23, I say eight years into his career. The Gutierrez-Diaz comparison isn't a bad one - Gutierrez is something of a fish out of water at 154, much Diaz really never had any business fighting above 140 (or at least didn't accomplish much at all beyond 140). But again, at the time of the aforementioned fights -
Angulo - 3 years/13 fights
Tony - 8 years/30 or so fights

Manuel Medina (who also turned pro when he was 15) was already on his second or third career by the time he turned 26. So age can't be applied as a blanket rule when assessing talent.

An interesting comparison, though:

In 2002 (which if I'm not mistaken is when Tony fought/slaughtered Diaz) the welterweight question we began to ask was whether or not he could take Vernon Forrest. (most people emphatically answered No, though I argued otherwise, on message boards and via by-lines).

In 2008, the junior middleweight question to soon be asked is whether or not Alfredo Angulo can take Vernon Forrest. (most people will probably emphatically answer No, though I will argue otherwise, on message boards and via by-lines). I say soon because, as I mentioned earlier (or perhaps in another thread), he probably doesn't have much of a shelf-life given his style.

 

Well he's a very good fighter. I don't think you can deny that. You don't hold a title as long as he did, beat guys like Clottey, Cintron and quite a few tough defenses if you aren't any good.

While Margarito lost to Williams, he closed pretty strong in a tight affair. And I'm not sure what Daniel Santos has to do with anything...he won a technical split decision after nine...in his hometown. In a fight where Margarito (a slow start) was coming on strong.

So it's not about buying into the hype. The hype is when a fighter claims he's avoided but won't take on the tough matches in the interim. But Margarito called out the big dog and when he didn't get him, fought guys like Clottey, Williams, Cintron and now Cotto. What's not to like?

 

Give Margarito this much credit - he remains the focal point of a discussion intended to be about three highly touted prospects

There's no question that Arum's "most avoided fighter" experiment blew up in his face - very few bit (if anything, everyone (except Floyd and Cotto) started calling him out), and Tony's subsequent performances (close win against Clottey, close loss against Williams) certainly didn't help any.

But where he doesn't get enough credit is, both were the type of fights that nobody else was in a hurry to take. As many Top 10 contenders as Cotto's already faced, all were well-scouted, calculated risks. You can argue that Margarito had no choice but to take those fights - but what's more impressive is the fact that he took them, nevertheless.

Hell, he took Williams when he already had a Cotto fight on the table. Not the smartest way to gain immediate recognition (esp. considering the outcome), but in an era where fans are bitching about the business side getting in the way of actual fights, his efforts should be applauded more so than chastised. Not to mention that he didn't lose any ground - he still has the Cotto fight and is getting by far the biggest payday of his career.

 

That's one way to look at it Jake, I certainly usually love fighters who fight anyone.

Another way to look at it is he was a scared bitch, and didn't want to get thumped by Cotto, so chose williams instead :tease:

And now that he lost to tall Paul, he realises he isn't that good, and that his career is drawing to a close, people no longer think he is the most underrated and ducked fighter in boxing, and that he may as well have a pop at cotto, and earn some decent wedge.

 

REED, you are fucking ridiculous dude. Margarito is better than Angulo right now. You can't argue otherwise. Nothing on Angulo's resume suggests he is a better fighter. If you want to sit here and talk about resumes and call Angulo better since he hasn't lost in 14 whole pro fights. Let me ask you this. How many belts has Angulo won? That's right, not one.

Why not let the kid get to the championship level before calling him better than a guy who's won belts at WW twice now?

Your argument sucks ass, even you have to know this.

 

he fought williams because he was offered more money. and now he is fighting cotto for about twice as much as was originally offered.

 

Well, their career paths have been about as dissimilar as possible. Margarito turned pro a 15 without much of an amateur career. Angulo was a multiple-time Mexican national champion and fought in the Olympics and then turned pro a few years into his 20's.

Interesting point about Forrest, though it helps Angulo that there really isn't an established #1 at 154 and the titles are completely fractured.

There's room for a fighter with good management/guidance to be maneuvered into a shot...and maybe he can also avoid a short shelf-life.

 

No, he took less money to fight Williams.

 

Margarito's resume and level of opposition is criminally underrated.

 

He got over a million for that fight which was the highlight of a triple header on HBO and the paycheck wasn't that much smaller than what he would've made against Cotto, and he took that fight with the knowledge that if he won he'd get Cotto later in year, probably for more money than he was offered originally.

Margarito was overconfident of his chances against Williams and lost, but given how intent Arum was on making the fight - and this was demonstrated by the legal actions taken before the Williams fight - it wasn't much of a gamble.

He fought a set up fight on Cotto-Mosley, fought Cintron for a title his next fight and will fight Cotto in July in perhaps the most anticipated fight of the year.

 

Actually, Margarita is the 1 who "Sucks Ass"...


REED

 

::::

Go REED

 

Come on REED, I don't expect you to say Margarito is good but you are basically calling him a bum when he's at worst top 5 at 147.

 

Well, going by The Ring's rankings (which in this case appear to be decent) he's 5th and is scheduled to fight the #1 contender, and has already fought the #4, 7 and 10 (2x) contenders...and against that comp he's 3-1.

Given that, it's easy to see why some call him a bum and mws calls him a " scared bitch".

 

Yeah, but has he fought Richar Gutierrez? :nono:

 

Nope, he's scared of "No D".

 

Margarito is scared of all challengers who lead with their face. :eeeek: