Special For Neil

Oh no, you just call me a liar and flippant, nothing bad about that.

Bob Costas almost got knocked through the floor by being a smart ass to Vince McMahon, and since that day has changed his attitude entirely to the people he interviews and chronicles.

I guess I hurt your feelings because I have a different opinion than you and in your mind that makes me a liar.

 

You've got a serious reading and comprehension issue. Where in any of what I wrote referenced anything close to calling you a liar? To re-state as simply as I possibly can to avoid confusing you once again...

I disagreed, you got defensive. A clear indication of hypersensitivity and continued childish behavior on your end.

There's no need to pick a fight with me Karl. I'm not one of the guys that you go back and forth with. Perhaps it's my mistake for making the assumption you had the capacity to have a rational discussion over a difference of opinion. I gave you too much credit. My apologies.

 

I've watched every Robinson fight there is to watch and along with the resume, I'm pretty convinced he's the best

Until you said it, I wasn;t aware of Larry Merchant's opinion on the matter, nor would his opinion on the matter have swayed me regardless

You are a fat blowhard and I think it would be great if you fucked off for eternity

 

What about all the people who have boxed and consider Robinson the greatest?

 

If they can make their case via technical viewpoint, as I have indicated many times here, I don't have a problem with that.

But to just say he is the greatest because some talking heads talking nonsense that work for HBO does is a different case altogether.

 

So only people who have been brainwashed by HBO consider Robinson the best?

 

Make your case for Napoles right now and I'll tear it to shreds

 

Ok Whiskey: I will be featured in a video conference in the coming weeks with a panel of other boxing experts including a former three time world champion and also a world title challenger, and one of the topics we will be discussing in our "Round Table" format will be the greatest fighter of all time.

Now, the main focus is going to be on my Blockbuster card next Spring "Return of the Champion" which will undoubtedly be the biggest boxing program in Houston in the year 2014 featuring the great Marlen Esparza, but we will also be discussing other topics as well for fightbeat posters and boxing fans internationally.

It promises to be a lot of fun and very informative, and I hope you and everyone else here will tune in.

 

I love the whole 'You never boxed so your opinion is worthless' argument.

I never played professional football, but I know Jerry Rice was the best receiver to ever play in the NFL. I never played baseball professionally, but I know that Mariano Rivera is the best reliever in baseball history.

Sometimes obvious is obvious, no matter what your background is.


TFK

 

I'll watch it.

 

Great post, you nailed it perfectly with the obsession about undefeated record. What is troubling is that some boxing people are kind of getting sway by it too. Just watch the round table with Jones, Calzaghe, Eubank, Nelson and Collins and most were saying Calzaghe was the greatest because he had never lost »:( but what is this crap with Merchant having an insight you don't have due to having watch fighters for the past 50 years ?? Aren't you some kind of old fart yourself???

 

As for Robinson being the GOAT, I kind of agree with Karl. Not that he wasn't necessarily the goat, just that I never understood why he was placed on this pedestal all by himself, kind of like if he was untouchable. Don't really know if it's true either, but the Merchant explanation makes perfect sense on this end, people kept hearing it by the broadcaster on HBO so they kind of assumed it was fact.

 

Yup. On top of being a dick, Merchant really knows dick all about boxing and it was always apparent from his commentary . He's a grumpy drunk old fuck who would've been happier judging Toughman contests.

 

I think Ezzard Charles deserves more consideration for GOAT

 

I watched that roundtable and found it interesting. Collins came off as a bit of an ass. I didn't realize he bypassed a chance to fight Calzaghe. It was humorous how Joe was lauded for being the only undefeated guy when clearly the best man at the table was Jones. I'd have a difficult time believing anyone at that table (including Joe) thinks thinks Joe could have beaten Roy during their respective primes.

 

Robinson was more consistent... Ezzard is top 5, for sure, IMO and has the best LHW resume by miles

Gun to my head, I might make SRR #1 and Ezzard #2 all-time "P4P"

When I rank fighters, I try to imagine them in a league where they all fight each other 5 times and you get a W-L-D record at the end of the year... In the Welterweight "league", I think SRR would have the best record and I think Ezzard would probably have the best record in the LHW "League" ... Then I try to marry my perception of how'd they do in this hypothetical league to the more traditional criteria (level of comp, record, comparisons to contemporaries, etc) to get a "rating" ... I think it is fair but obviously it tends to greatly diminish the standing of the real old-timey guys from the pre-1940s because they don't do so well in the "League" even though many rank real high in the other criteria... To some people, that may make it unfair but I think it is reasonable to judge the earliest eras as less impressive from an actual fighting standpoint

 

Seems to me like Ezzard's competition was markedly better than Ray's; and he went 8 years & 44 odd fights undefeated after moving to 175 (except for a gift decision loss), so it's not like he was hit or miss in his prime. Also Charles two 'legit' losses in his 20s took place while he was serving in the army in 1943. He was knocked down 15 times in those two fights and he never fought below 175 again so I think there's every reason to place huge astix' beside both - put them aside and there's no inconsistency to account for. He won every other fight in his 20s and his competition during that time is beyond ridiculous.

But as long as you have him top 5 I won't fight with you about it :truce:

 

I'd have no issue with Charles ranked #1...an argument can be made for him certainly. Especially considering how highly I think of Archie Moore and Moore lost to Charles three times.

 

"WORD" to both of these posts :mj:

 

Scheduled to join me in the video are: Reggie "Sweet" Johnson, former middleweight and two time light heavyweight champion and Termite Watkins, former number one world ranked super lightweight contender, as well as several other folks from the boxing world.

This is going to be a serious discussion format so if you have any questions that you want to have the two champs address, just post them here in this thread and we'll try to get to them.

Should be going down around Halloween, maybe a bit before, and it is going to be a good time.

 

Reggie Johnson was a terrific fighter, not many of his quality around today.

 

Agree. I want to see that poll better.

 

I think you can still consider Robinson the greatest boxer ever, even if you don't rate him #1 at welter.

 

Hyperbole. As many guys of Johnson's caliber these days as there was when he fought. He wasn't a p4p guy then; he wouldn't be now. He was a beltholder then; he'd be one now.

 

Perhaps, but he's always considered at his best when he fought at welter. So, if you are going to make this point, you are going to have start dancing around with what you are talking about. (I am directing this at anyone who would want to make the argument you are saying is possible.)

 

Welter was his best weight, no doubt. But I think the argument can be made that he cemented his greatness, his legend, by winning the middleweight title five times.

 

I find it ridiculous to blame Larry Merchant for Robinson's boxing status.

I guess Howard Cosell is to blame for Muhammad Ali's success as well.

 

Well put it this way - he's at least as good as Sergio Martinez or Saul Alvarez and these guys are good enough to appear on P4P lists and get hailed as boxing's next superstar. So, yeah, there aren't many guys of his standard around now.

 

Why are you bothering?

You know where he stands on this