Sugar Ray Leonard: an appreciation.

I'm a McCallum fan, and it has NOTHING at all to do with me liking Roy fool! And theres no point in hyping McCallum to boost Roy's resume anyway. Roy beat McCallum when Mike had two feet in the grave.

So because McCallum never beat Duran/Hearns/Hagler, he couldnt challenge Leonard? It woulda helped his case a bit if Duran, or Hearns had actually wanted to fight him, but unforunutely for Mike neither did. Its pretty well known that Manny Steward didnt want Tommy getting within a 100 miles of Mike. McCallum always wanted to fight Hearns though, as well as Duran.

I dunno what the arguement is about you simpleton. I never said McCallum was as great as Ray, nor did I say he would have beaten him, but calling McCallum "not very good" makes you look like an ignorant jackass.

 

You're trying too hard to hold up an argument that is caving in.

All Nunn had to do was run the last two rounds and he'd have won on all 3 cards

Same thing can be said about Chavez-Taylor, Louis-Conn and a lot of other fights. Being ahead on the cards and just coasting is easier said than done. You have to take those fights into context, not the scorecards.

I know this is all tied to your love of RJJ. RJJ beat McCallum, so lets jump in to every topc and talk up his opponents.

This has nothing to do with Roy's resume. I've yet to see any Jones fan hype of the win over McCallum as if it was something special. It was a win over a solid veteran. Nothing more.

You're reading things that aren't even there.

 

Disagreed on the last point. I have seen Roy fans brag about Roy beating a decaffinated Vinny Pazienza. I have heard Roy fans brag about the size of Roy's shits or stream of Roy's urine compared to your "average" fighter's urine.Let's not be too hastey.You can disagree without going too far.

 

Roy's win over McCallum is so irrelevant on Roy's resume that I often forget that they actually fought.

 

1) What I actually said was "McCallum isn't that good" in response to claims he'd beat/give Leonard hell.

2) He isn't that good. Of course he's a historic A-/B+ level fighter, but in terms of comparisons with Leonard, or prospective comparisons with Hearns, I mean lets not suggest a guy whose best win is over Lloyd Honeyghan cannon-fodder is comparable with Leonard/Hearns.

I mean why don't we just go ahead and suggest Antonio Tarver would beat/give hell to Michael Spinks at LHW.

Lets just not talk up the second tier, as if it were the first tier, is all I've been saying throughout.

 

I'm a Roy fan but never bragged about the win over (the decaffinated ::) Pazienza.

I do enjoy that fight as a spectacle however. It was a tough guy in over his head against a world class talent. The job Roy did on Paz was impressive to watch.

Resume enhancing? Certainly not. Just a fun to watch ass kicking.

 

I dont recall ONE poster on here saying that McCallum would have beaten a prime Ray. But to suggest he woulda given Leonard hell is not far fetched at all.

And you should be truly ashamed of yourself for comparing McCallum to Milkdud. Next thing ya know, you'll be comparing Mike to someone like Vernon Forrest.

 

Agreed. Not to mention the final combo which finished Paz off was truly a thing of beauty.

 

jaws the historian strikes again! 'mccallum wasn't that good'. ::

ask emmanuel steward who great mccalum was. this, after they had a huge fallout.

roy beat mccallum when he was shot to shit at 175 pounds yet roy was hardly impressive until the later rounds.

 

Roy CARRIED McCallum...

The 1 Time McCallum Got FRISKY, Roy Dropped him, Almost ACCIDENTALLY...As Whiskey Said, that's NOT a Win that Roy Fans Speak on that Much...

It was APPARENT that McCallum was a SHELL of His Old Self...Even Roy Jones HIMSELF Said as Much...



REED:mj:

 

As for Ray Leonard, he was the TOTAL PACKAGE...

SPEED to Burn, SKILLS, Good TECHNIQUE, POWER N Both Hands, Good Defense, GREAT Chin...& he was MARKETABLE...Honestly, PRIME Ray Leonard DIDN'T Have a Weakness...

All U Need to Know about Leonard is that he OUTBOXED Wilfred Benitez & OUTSLUGGED Tommy Hearns...


REED:mj:

 

Thank you. :bears:

All Leonard's detractors can ever think to say when attacking him is he "Oooohhh...he ducked Pryor, McCallum, prime-Hagler, Blah-Blah-fucking-Blah".

Basically, you hate him cos he was smart, beat the best and had all of what REED states above.


End of.

 

That's an UNFAIR Argument, Generally Used by HATERS...

The FACT is, Every Single All Time GREAT Fighter has a LIST of Names they DIDN'T Fight...

Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis & Ray Robinson DIDN'T Fight ALOT of the Elite Black Fighters of their Day...Larry Holmes DIDN'T Fight Michael Dokes, Greg Page or Gerrie Coetzee...

DeLa DIDN'T Fight Vernon Forrest, Winky Wright, Kostya Tszyu, Vince Phillips or Jose Luis Lopez...

EVERY Great Fighter has a List of Names they DIDN'T Face...It's IMPOSSIBLE to Literally Fight "Everybody"...



REED:mj:

 

I don't hold the Aaron Pryor "avoidance" against Leonard. So what if Pryor "called out" Leonard at a press conference? Everyone challenges the big money fighters.

A champ has no obligation to fight a champ or contender in a lower division. Isn't that what guys like Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins, and recently Floyd Mayweather have been criticized for doing?

It's nice if they do fight, but it's no requirement.

Leonard's lack of activity for much of the 80s do hold somewhat against his all-time standing, and the Lalonde two titles thing was a sham, but he's still an ATG.

Even though Hagler had slowed down, it's not like Leonard was at a huge advantage either. He was 31 himself, hadn't fought in 3 years, and was a smaller guy. I personally scored it for Hagler, but it was a close fight that could've gone either way, and a great achievement for Ray.

Jo Jo Guerra's card was a disgrace, however.

 

agREED. It's ridiculous to think that Leonard was in anyway "avoiding" Pryor. Just because a fight didn't happen doesn't mean that someone was "ducked".

 

Maybe I spend too much time on other boxing forums (where the posters are mostly idiots) to make the day go faster, but I've increasingly come to hate HBO's Legendary Nights because of all the things people say (or misinterpet) from that show.

 

agREED. I cheered against Ray Leonard in all of his fights, but there is no denying his greatness. Simply one of the greatest fighters ever.

 

Wasn't Leonard/Hearns a way bigger fight than Leonard/Duran I?

 

Yes...


REED:hammert:

 

Can one make the the argument that the Leonard/Duran rematch was actually a bigger fight than the first one?

 

Yes.

 

The RE was Held N the Superdome N New Orleans, if that Answers your Question...


REED:hammert:

 

That's what I thought. Leonard coming off his first loss and all that.

I don't like to jump to conclusions when it comes to an era I didn't live through, but if history and fight tapes are any indication Trplsec is lying right to all of our faces to make a point.

:crying:

 

:bears:

 

I didn't live thru it either, I'm just going by what I read.

 

I'm curious exactly what Hearns did to put on a different level from McCallum. Could you explain that to me real quick?

Hearns was brutally KO'ed in the two biggest fights of his career during his prime yet you put him on a different level than McCallum. How does that work exactly?

Are you giving Hearns a higher status based on beating Duran at 154 pounds? Well, based on your own rationale that wouldn't be justification because Duran was already beaten at that weight by Benitez and the unforgetable Kirkland Laing... WOW!!!

And who doesn't think starching a young, unbeaten Julian Jackson at 154 wasn't more impressive? By the way, who was the 'B' Fighter that knocked out Jackson before McCallum again?

As I said, at 154 pounds, there hasn't been a fighter in history who would have toyed with a prime McCallum. And that would include Leonard, Hearns and Duran.

 

No I'm not lying. I should have been clearer. It was the biggest fight of his career up to that point. Hearns was obviously the bigger fight at Welterweight.

I have no problem correcting myself when I'm wrong.

 

Well, the first fight was at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal which was sold out. I don't know seating capacity at either place but they look to be comparable.

 

Gotcha. :bears: