The "I NEVER was Impressed by Margarito" Bandwagon...

i expect margarito to take care of biz next saturday and then go on to upset cotto in june or july. he shall then get his old belt back from the winner of williams-quintana II.

 

::

How much are you going to bet on that fight Joon?

 

i'm done betting on fights.

what i said is not out of the realm. cotto is beatable. margarito would be the best fighter cotto has ever faced. edging out an old ass mosley wasn't all that impressive.

i shall be vindicated once my prophecy comes to fruition.

 

I actually agree. Though I had Cotto beating Mosley 8-4; if there's one fighter who can "take what Cotto dishes out" and keep coming, it's Margarito, sloppiness aside. And his inside game is underrated.

He's hurt early but usually keeps coming and gets stronger and more active as the rounds go by....and his workrate is high and consistent.

Plus he's a big mofo.

If he can take what Cotto dishes out early and keep coming and pressing, the fight could get very interesting late indeed. Cotto has the skill to box him but will be quite pressed and will get little rest.

Peace.

 

Uuuuuh, "Ya'll Musta Forgot" to ADD the Names, Hopkins, Toney, McCallum, Griffin (2x), Hill, RUIZ & Tarver...

UNLIKE Margarita, Roy Found Opposition to Fight N the Interim, when Other Opponents Didn't Work Out...The ONLY Guy Roy DIDN"T Fight @ 175 was MichalSHITski, but Compare that to How Many LEGIT Guys MichalSHITski Fought @ the Same Weight???

...Bottom Line, BOTH Roy & MichalSHITski Look BAD from that Fight NEVER Occuring, but REED Feels SECURE N the Knowledge that WHO Roy Fought SHITS on WHO MichalSHITski Fought...

Actually, MichalSHITski & Margarito R Somewhat SIMILAR...MichalSHITski Fought a Host of B or C Level Guys, STRUGGLED w/a ALOT Of them, yet Emerged VICTORIOUS Enough to Keep a MODICUM of Boxing Interest...After STRUGGLING w/Carefully Handpicked TBA's, MichalSHITski NEVER Hesitated to Beat his Own Chest about WHO was "Ducking" Him...BOTH MichalSHITski & Margarita Fought D Level Guys, but REED @ Least Gives Margarita CREDIT for Wiping his Ass w/the Porn Star & the Skeletal Remains of Manuel Gomez, Among Other Rubbish he's Faced...

If U WANT, U Can Hold Negotiations AGAINST Almost ANY Fighter & TWIST it to Say he's "Ducking" So & So...Like REED Noted the Other day, DeLa NEVER Fought Tszyu, Forrest, the Wink, JL Lopez or Vince Phillips...

Holmes DIDN'T Fight Coetzee, Dokes, Page or the Pink...

But DeLa, Holmes AND Roy have Forged STELLAR Careers...U CAN'T Do that w/Out Fighting GOOD Opposition @ Some Point...

The Deal w/Margarita is, he HASN'T Supplemented his LACK of "Big" Names w/ENOUGH Guys just Below "Big", NOR has he PERFORMED to the Degree a Fighter Should, Against a Presumably LOWER Quality of Comp...

Bottom Line, REED isn't Saying Margarita has DUCKED Any Particular Fighter, REED is just FIGHTING the Idea that Margarita was PURPOSELY Neglected, Out of "Fear", Concern or Whatever U Wanna Call It...

ELITE Fighters HAVE Tried to Fight him, but HE Passed for Whatever Reason...Just like Other Fighters have...

But NO Current Fighter SUCKS from the "I was DUCKED, They WON'T Fight Me" TEET, as Frequently as Margarita Does...

It's Getting OLD....







REED

 

1. Agreed. However, it's a fact that offers were made and he was turned down. It's simply true. Blame is in both places. Risk/reward, baby.

2. COTTO tried to fight him. Offers were made to Mosley, Mayweather, Wright...all turned him down. DLH was never interested.

3. Can agree with that....but is it really Margarito doing the sucking, or is it the media and some fans?

Peace.

 

Antonio Margarita is like that SONG or CHICK that your Buddy SWEARS is the Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread, yet YOU just DON'T "SEE" or "GET" It...


REED

 

Even this version of Mosley is a better fighter than margarito ever was, or ever shall be. So no, Marge won't be cotto's best opponent.

Anything Marge does, Cotto does better.

Handspeed - Cotto

Power - Cotto

Footwork - Cotto

Jab - Cotto

Overall skill and Craftiness - Cotto

Timing and accuracy - Cotto

Stamina - Cotto

Chin - Even

Height - Margarito


If they do fight, Cotto does a fucking number on him. Cotto TKO 10.

Margarito has one advantage - height.

Margarito is a basic pressure fighter. A sloppy, slow, uncoordinated pressure fighter with a decent punch, and a good chin. He's fairly tough, so he'll hang in there with Cotto until late, but he'll take an absolute beating.

Fucking hell, why does Marge continue to get overrated like this? The guy is not an elite fighter, he has never beaten an elite fighter.

Cotto is a proven elite fighter, and despite being only about 5'2, he is a beast.

 

Good analogy, Reed. Although I don't think the argument is that he's some great fighter, but whether he was deserving of a big fight. I think he was.

Anyway, I wondered the same thing a year ago. So I went out and purchased about 20 of his fights and watched them all thoroughly. Such a pity - he really has slowed down some. The Margarito of 2003-2005 was an absolute terror, however. Not quite as slow as he's looked since and with an incredible workrate. Sad to see those years go to waste - fighters like him, who turn pro when they're like 15, tend to slow down quicker. Especially if they stay in one division as long as he did.

I thought the same thing about Antonio Tarver. As big as a Roy fan as I am, I picked Tarver over Roy the first and second time they fought. His style just wasn't much but there was an awkwardness and rhythm to it that was fitted to offset Roy's strengths, I thought. We all know what happened there.

Anyway, seems we're all overlooking Cintron next week. I still say he's a live dog, especially early.

 

::

U just VERBALLY Painted the EXACT Image REED Gets of Margarita:clap: ...& WHENEVER REED Watches him Fight, which is Fairly FREQUENTLY(Diaz, Lujan, Kyvelos, Six Heads, Clottey, Williams, & 3-4 Spanish Channel Bouts, Among Others), REED has been Left LESS than IMPRESSED...

Guys like to DISGUISE Margarita as "Subtle", like he LURED Paul Williams Into Something:: ...Like Being BEHIND Early or Getting SEVERELY Outlanded N Round 12 was by DESIGN...James Toney was "Subtle", Margarita is AVERAGE...Paul Williams is a FREAK Physically, but as a Prizefighter, he's ALSO AVERAGE, yet he BEAT Margarita...

Margarita's A GOOD, HONEST, HARDWORKING Guy who's Gonna Give his ALL Each Time Out, but an ELITE Fighter CAPABLE of RUINING a Cotto-Mayweather SUPERFIGHT???...Fuck No!!!...REED RESPECTS what the Cat has Done UNTIL Peeps Tell REED that he DESERVES Fights w/Elite Guys...If he DESERVED 'em, he'd GET 'em...WINNING is Boxing's BEST Negotiating Tactic, yet Margarita CAN'T Even Do that CONSISTENTLY...

Cotto's SUPERIORITY N Overall Pugilistic CLASS will B TELLING....



REED

 

:::: Margarito will be the BIGGEST guy Cotto ever face...better? NO...Mosley/Judah were/are more skilled....than Margarito could've hope to be...

the Mosley version that fought Cotto would beat MARGARITO...Cotto speed/timing/accurate punching/boxing ability won that fight for him......things Margarito doesn't have....Mosley vs. Margarito would look like Mosley vs. Vargas..without the KO...

 

According to the Pac fans if you get a KD you win a fight automatically on the scorecards.

 

margarito would beat down the current version of mosley. judah has skills? margarito knocks him out badly.

 

I respect that. But like Reed and others...I have never been all that impressed with Margarito.
He will beat Cintron I think,...even though Kermit will stand a much better chance this time.
But a seasoned, skilled professional like Cotto will eat him up imo.

 

I'm a Cotto fan.

But stamina belongs to Margarito.

I'm also not that sure that Cotto holds a definitive edge in Power.

And I think both men can hurt each other to the body.

Peace.

 

I was going to put stamina even or edge to margarito then I thought about it a second.

When was the last time that Marge showed good stamina and workrate?

Why did he pretty much not fight at all for the first 8 rounds of the williams fight? Was it because he was conserving his diminished stamina, or because he is nut as gutsy as you thought when confronted with a fighter who was attacking him constantly?

Margarito may have USED to had better stamina. But does he still? I don't think so. I think cotto has the edge in stamina.

Cotto showed excellent stamina in both the Judah and Mosley fights, better stamina than Marge has shown in a long time.

And cotto hits harder for sure. He is a heavy, damaging puncher. Marge has decent power, nothing more.

 

Oh, believe me, I pick Cotto to win.

But I think people are making a mistake in simply comparing them technically and discounting styles and physical make-up.

As we've seen over and over, relentlessness, determination, high workrate, pressure and a good chin can overcome alot of technical deficiencies. Sloppy "average" fighters have beaten the "superior" opponent on paper before.

Peace.

 

Donny what are you on about? Have you seen Margarito fight recently?

Where was all this relentlessness, determination, high workrate and pressure against Williams, or even Clottey?

Marge was never that good, but is more average than ever now. He doesn't have the same workrate and stamina that he used to. So now he's like a slow, sloppy, pseudo-pressure-fighter.

You're talking about him as if he's the secnod coming of Duran.

Cotto is FAR more relentless than Margarito, and has more guts too. Cotto might be patient, but the little fucker is determined and gutsy, and never stops coming.

Cotto wouldn't stand there for 8 rounds like a mong getting clowned by williams.

I don't think margarito is as gutsy as you think, nor does he have the stamina and workrate that you think he does these days.

 

Fair point, bro. I'm not "on" about anything. ::

Just talking the fight.

Margarito has looked 'average' often throughout his career. My point is there are chinks in Cotto's style that lend themselves to Margarito being more effective.

Simple.

I'm not "hyping up" Marge or picking him to beat Cotto. I DO think he will give him a tougher time than many of you think.

Peace.

 

I know, it's just a british turn of phrase. :tease:

But you were describing him as if he was this raging beast, like duran, or the pacman of 2003.

I agree that he used to have good stamina and workrate, now I am not so sure.

Also, Marge has the rep of being tough, gutsy and what have you. Like many a great mexican fighter.

But honestly? He is not. Look at the williams fight. He bottled out. Williams is not exactly a ferocious fighter, but he has a VERY high workrate, and marge was reticent. He didn't have the guts to attack williams with a higher ferocity, because he knew he'd get hit a lot. And obviously he's not as fast and skilled as quintana, so he couldn't outslick williams either.

It was only late where he started to get a little desperate and realized he might be able to hurt or stop williams that he started fighting, and taking some risks.

 

i'm curious to see how cotto will react to margarito's uppercuts on the inside in addition to his body work.

cotto won't win this by slugging it out, he's gonna have to box from the outside, but i believe margarito will get to him in the mid-later rounds and win on points.

 

Joon - ask me this question early last year and I would've agreed with you. I assumed the Clottey performance was partially due to ring rust and partially because...well, Clottey is damn good.

But his performance against Williams tells me that the age, struggles to make weight and wars are beginning to catch up with him. Cotto, on the other hand, looks better and better to me each time he fights.

Of course, all depends on how both look next week.

 

you might be right about margarito slowing down. i guess we'll see what he has left next saturday.

btw, you going to that card?

 

dsimon writes:

I don't think much of Margarito but I agree that he measures up well against Cotto becasue of his size, reach and body attack. Also Margarito does have a good chin.

I think Cotto beats him but Margarito might make some points for hanging with Cotto, probably in similar fashion to the Mosley fight.

I don't agree with people who think Cotto will knock Margarito out. But Cotto will punish him.

 

Please! Stop making excuses for Phony! He's still very much in his prime. He lost to Williams simply because Paul is a better fighter! Margarita didnt look old at all in that fight, he simply got beat.

I see people are ALREADY building in excuses for when Cotto kicks the shit outta Phony. I can see it now.... "Cotto beat a washed up Phony."

 

Was thinking of rolling if Zach and Carlos were but it looks like only C is going. I may have to cover the Tarver fight anyway :/

 

Dude, get real. The guy has slowed down some. And if you don't think a 5'11, straight-ahead brawler like Margarito - who has been making weight since he was about 16 won't slow down at this point, you're on crack.

 

who do you write for these days?

carlos rarely goes to fights in AC.

 

Boxing News Magazine (UK). Lots of Telefutura and Telemundo :doh:

 

xplosive and reed's evaluation of margarito cannot be taken seriously due to their hateful bias towards the best mexican welterweight in the last 10 years or so. ::