The "I NEVER was Impressed by Margarito" Bandwagon...

Well, I don't know if any fighter can be as good as the hype coming from their fan base. Thats the nature of fans; they tend to love everything about them and usually exagerate the guys abilities, to garner attention for them.

Well, I don't really know why you'd judge the guy on his record. He can't secure big fights, so he keeps active. That should be applauded, IMO.

His two wins over Richard Williams were special kinds of wins, IMO and I don't throw that word out there lightly. Martinez is a legitimate contender and has been so for the past 5 years. This isn't overnight me thinking this either. I've been trying to get people to get a look at the guy for a LONG time.

 

I guess we'll have to see what happens to Martinez when and if he gets in there with another top guy.

you don't have to explain to me the hype that accompanies fighters by their crazy fanbase... i am not talking about the groupies or any of that nonsense, people whose opinions i hold in high regard have gone along with the hype of margarita and i haven't agreed with it.

 

I hear you, man. I get where you're coming from now and I respect that. I guess we'll see with Cotto, huh. What do you expect out of that fight?

 

I was at that fight also and wasn't at all impressed by margarito, or martinez. it looked like those guys were fighting underwater.

since then margarito has proven to be quite a formidable welter.

 

agRYAN BOWEN.

 

That's EXACTLY how I feel about Marge.

He's sort of like the proper boxing fan's fave, and the writer's fave, but I've just never seen what they seem to.

Good, solid fighter and nothing more, and you'll see the difference between him and an elite fighter when he gets taken apart by Cotto.

 

dsimon writes:

His style is fan friendly. But when you start to consider him against a top guy it gets hard to see how he will hold up.

There will always be a place in boxing for swarmers. But against a real boxer they will generally get taken apart. Hollyfield made a career out of being a swarmer, and during the first Moore fight, Moore showed what a skilled boxer could do. Margarito will imo be in a similar situattion with Cotto.

 

margarito gets compared to holyfield in the 'not impressed w/margarito' thread

go figure

 

Let me ask you this REED, or anyone else who wants to answer.

Take a look at Floyd resume and tell me who you would pick to beat Margarito. I wouldn't pick anyone on his resume over Tony. Not even Oscar. In his prime, sure, but not the Oscar Floyd fought.

Let's hear it.

 

Gatti::

 

Can you imagine what Margarito would do to Gatti? Or Zab? ::

Although Mayweather has fought greater fighters at lighter weights than Margarito, he never fought one that would beat Margarito.

Since REED won't respond will just conclude that Margarito is just too bad ass for Mayweather.

End thread.

::

 

Exactly.

To say Margarito is overrated is one thing (and not totally unwarranted, I will admit).

But to THEN try to build up a guy for barely edging Luis Collazo (who isn't on the level of Margarito victims like Clottey or Cintron) is blatantly hypocritical, and outright absurd.

You can't have it both ways.

 

I'm embarassed to say that I've never even heard of the guy... and that never happens to me.

 

Dsimon, I'm shocked and appalled that in one thread you will lecture on the subtleties of Rocky Marciano's game only to turn around and dumb down Holyfield's style in another. :nono:

 

dsimon writes:

Truth is you and Neil are right I jut don't think Holly was that good. Same shit... overwhelm, swarm your opponent. Thats what Margarito tries to do its how Holly won. Same strategy of overwhelming.

 

Re-watch the Holyfield/Bowe rematch. Holyfield was MUCH more than a swarmer.

 

Yeah, I think that's the first time I've even heard Holyfield described as that. Wow.

 

I mean, if it wasn't for that bogus DQ against Tua's old manager in the semi's of the Olympics, he would probably be a former gold medal winner. Holyfield was a fantastic boxer, very skilled.

 

dsimon writes:

I don't think Bowe was that good. :: I am not denying Holly was superb I just don't care for that style and I think a lot of heavies were better. Yes he did duke it out with Bowe for what it is worth.

Why do you go think using the term "Swarmer" in and of itself is perjorative? It just means that a guy has a high punch output, presses but does not necessarily have a punch to end it.... Its not saying that a guy can't be skilled and fight this way.

 

Does that mean the other times you've never heard of a guy, you're proud to say it? :dunno:

::

 

That's the most bizarre description of Holyfield I've ever heard.

I've always thought of holy as a crafty counterpuncher/boxer, and I'm sure most others see him that way.

A swarmer he was not. A swarmer is Joe Frazier, or a prime example, Henry Armstrong.

 

Why were they special?

 

Cos the guy's a window licker.

 

:dunno:

Seriously, you got me intrigued. Why were they so special?

And I am still waiting for those Mauricio Pastrana recommendations.

 

Waiting for what?

Martinez looked like a dead set world class fighter on those nights. For all of his flaws, Richard Williams was a fine offensive fighter, who strung his punches together in textbook form. Martinez completely befuddled him and punched his face in. Ruining his career in the process.

 

Yeah, dsimon is simply wrong in his analysis here. I have every single one of Holyfield's pro fights on tape, as well as all his Olympic stuff and Olympic trials.

It's cool D. :bears:

 

You know what I meant. :nono:

 

I think Bowe was good, but his style was tailored for a smaller fighter like Holyfield - who was certainly a willing participant - because he could stay on the inside - where he did have very developed skills. He had a good jab (though not on the level of Lewis', or even Golota's, IMO), good infighting abilities and a dynamic uppercut. He also had a sweeping overhand right that he could bring over the top against smaller fighters. I think that punch (or moreso his lack of a real straight right like Lewis) would've been his downfall against Lewis, but against Holyfield it worked.

As for Holyfield being a swarmer, I don't know about that categorization and I think Steward deserves some credit for making him fight more intelligently and more measured at heavyweight.

 

Steward's track record at heavyweight in the 90s really was something else. Not only did he train Holyfield to his only win over Riddick Bowe, he also trained Oliver McCall and Lennox Lewis to beat eachother. If I'm not mistaken, Steward had never lost a heavyweight title fight until Rahman stopped Lewis.

 

steward trained holyfield for 1 fight? I wouldn't give him much credit.