The shit I've heard on another forum today........

Based on fuckin WHAT does Canelo have a sturdy chin?

 

If Alvarez gets the 170 lb. cushion then shouldn't Hearns get to be his LHW version (the first iteration, not the old one that beat Hill)

 

"Other than power and chin...."

First, that's two very important advantages. But besides those, Garcia is also the smarter fighter. And Garcia's timing would serve him well against Taylor's handspeed. Remember Garcia/Judah?

 

I dunno. His 40 something fight pro career where he's never been dropped or seriously hurt. Or like something. And his cranial density, obviously. His chin is average at worst.

 

Sure. I'm thinking 1986 at 168.

 

If the MUCH lesser Cotto had any power, Canelo would have been a goner that night.

Canelo damn sure doesn't have an Andre Berto chin, but I highly doubt it's a Chavez chin either.

If Hearns could eat Duran's chin like nothing, I have a VERY difficult time envision Canelo taking his power. Weight would mean NOTHING. Tommy had the power of a light heavy. Usually, that's an exaggeration, but in this case it's true. Hearns was a welter/junior middle with the power of a lightheavy.

Crapnelo gets smoked in a hurry.

 

Hearns record against guys above 154 is what it is. In the mid 80s the fight is probably at 168. Think less about the Cuevas & Duran fight and more about the Kinchen and Adries fights and you'll get there. Both inferior to Cuevas and Duran, both about 15-20lb heavier

Alvarez is inferior again so I think he gets stopped but those are the comparison fights, not Duran and Cuevas.

 

You're comparing Canelo to Andres now? LMFAAOOOO!!!

Wow. You're really reaching. Andries was a light heavy bro. Not in the 1950's either. He was a light heavy within the 24 weigh-in era. Dennis Andres was a MUCH bigger man than Crapnelo.

My God you're overrating Crapnelo's size.

 

It's a more relevant fight for context than somebody 25lb lighter, yes. 'LMFAAOO!'

 

Even by the standards of internet debates this is a waste of fucking calories. Canelo is allot bigger than Cuevas or Duran. My pick is Hearns by KO, your pick is Hearns by KO. /discussion.

 

Canelo at the MOST is a middleweight in another era. He's no bigger than that in any MODERN era. He wouldn't be a light heavy in any era. He's a 5'7-5'8' stocky MIDGET. That's all. So we can compare the Roldan fight, as Roldan was a durable middleweight with a big punch. Tommy wrecked him in 4.

 

Fine but whether Hearns got Roldan out of there in the 4th or the 9th he didn't give him the Cuevas treatment, did he. He didn't give any ranked guy that size or bigger the Cuevas treatment (even Shuller). It was a different dynamic, he wasn't centre ring and it wasn't as domineering as vs Cuevas or Duran. That's my only point.

Either way he KOs Alvarez so Im done arguing about this.

 

I would definitely take Roldan over Canelo at Middleweight. There aren't too many good middles that I can see Canelo beating.

 

No, but he smoked Roldan inside 4. By the "Cuevas treatment" I didn't mean it necessarily would be done in 2 rounds (although that's VERY possible). But I think Canelo would be lucky to last more than 4-5.

This is how I think I Canelo does vs the Fab 4:

Gets stopped within 6-7 by Leonard.

Gets stopped within 4 by Hearns.

Gets stopped within 6 by Hagler.

Gets stopped in about 8-9 by Duran.

 

Tony Sibson would stop Canelo as well IMO.

The thing is, Canelo isn't especially physically strong IMO. For a short, stocky guy, I would think he'd be stronger, but I don't see him as this this bull.

I made a MM of Matt Hilton vs Tony Ayala. Those two were both midget tanks with devestating power. I never saw Canelo as a guy with that type of strength, nor power.

 

Canelo might get KO'd be Hearns in the first or in the later rounds, the point about his size was just that it makes it less likely Hearns would dominate centre ring and keep Canelo where he wanted him like he did more easily at welter and 154. So the liklihood of Alvarez going rounds increases to me.

Quite honestly I dont think Duran stops Canelo in 10 tries. Duran basically never stopped anyone at middle including outright scrubs.

Canelo isn't very good at all....he's just pretty heavy. The BIGGEST advatage size gives a guy is it makes him harder to KO.

 

Given how SHITTY Crapnelo's defense and stamina is, I don't think he stands a snowball's chance in Holy Hell at seeing the final bell vs Duran.

Duran was STRONGER than Crapnelo, and would physically man handle him. Weight doesn't always equal physical strength. If you think that, then you probably believe Chris Arreola was physically stronger than Tyson.

 

I reckon Canelo will be nothing at middleweight. He is not a big guy.

I kept saying before the Floyd fight his size won't mean anything, it's useless size, and I think that was true. He is heavy, but it's kind of useless weight, as he's not even a very physical fighter. He has a small frame too, obviously. Oscar seemed like the significantly bigger man in their fight, Canelo didn't, even though presumably Canelo weighed more than Oscar?

Plus I doubt his chin is anything special. At least average, but he does seem to get stung with shots, including by Floyd, who he outweighed significantly.

My point is really just that weight is deceptive. You have to look at a guy's overall frame and physique too. Canelo is just chunky and a bit podgy. He probably weighs a similar amount to a prime Hopkins, but who would you consider the bigger guy?

 

THANK YOU! I'm glad you get it.

Hut Hut is putting FAR too much emphasis on that damn Trout fight.

Canelo's not even a HUGE junior middle, let alone middle.

I think Vargas was physically bigger than Canelo, and Vargas was MUCH stronger. Yet I wouldn't consider Nando a middleweight either.

 

Arreola's weight is fat, Canelo's is not.

Duran never stops Canelo. Canelo has 35 lb on a prime Duran. Let's be realistic.

 

I just rewatched some of Mayweather-Alvarez. I was about 10 pints in the hole when I watched it live. Hearns probably would give Alvarez the Ceuvas treatment, more or less :: Mayweather backed Alvarez up quite allot in that one, much more than i (hazily) remembered

I'll say in Alvarez' defense though that he isn't as poor as Mayweather made him look. he's basically a poor man's Marquez style wise and he'll do well against similar styles of opponents. He's a pretty good counter puncher. That just really doesn't work against Floyd

 

An old, fat Duran could do damage to Barkley, yet he couldn't do any to Crapnelo? Makes perfect sense....... Canelo is NOT lasting the distance with the Duran that stopped Moore. It's just not happening. Duran would beat the shit outta him until either the ref jumps in, or Canelo's corner stops it.

 

Duran would beat the hell out of Canelo

 

Given how piss poor Canelo's stamina is, I can't see how anybody would favor him to last the distance.

 

He didn't stop Barkley, who was far easier to hit than Canelo. This is another asinine x did y to z so x does y to a comparison. Alvarez is a LOT bigger than Moore. In the 80s he'd be fighting at super middle.

 

I don't think Canelo is as good at fighting as either of those fellows

 

Who's saying he is? :crying: He doesn't have to be for his size to make him more difficult to KO.

 

Generally easier to knock a guy out when he's not that good a fighter, no? Size only goes so far

Iran Barkley was an enormous middleweight and Duran was able to hurt him, aged 37, 22 years into his pro career... I don't see how it is some outrageous claim that he may have been able to hurt and possibly stop Alvarez, especially if he was a younger version of himself

If X was saying "Duran KHTFO out of him in 2 rounds habbahahhanhabba" then I would agree that is stupid

 

Even then, you're unlikely to physically knock him out. The Duran couldn't have possibly have hit Barkley any harder and despite being real tired & he pretty much got straight back up. he hits a welterweight with those shots they don't get up for 5 minutes. I guess The Duran might stop Alvarez on his feet or something by sheer attrition, but my money would be against it.

 

Yep, Barkley was tired, eye closed, and getting whaled on repeatedly .. classic Duran. Gratest fiter of are times.