To what extent has Floyd proven himself?

Leonard came back from a 3-year retirement and a detached retina to beat Hagler, the undisputed middleweight champion. Floyd came back from retirement to beat Oscar. The sad part is that Hagler was definitely the pinnacle because he was the biggest credible opponent for Leonard at that time (and viewed by many as too big a mountain to climb).

Delahoya, by contrast, was a part-time boxer who lost to the most dominant middleweight since Hagler via tapout to a non-bodyshot and then went on to cherrypick smaller guys once again. The difference is DLH fought smaller guys who he was expected to beat. Hagler fought the best middleweights available at the time.

Neither Delahoya nor Mayweather are comparable to Hagler. Leonard could be in that he went from welter to lightheavy, but he actually won the big bouts and ducked nobody.

Can you imagine Hagler or Leonard demanding blood tests from someone other than the athletic commissions and then getting pissed off because someone tried to bring up people they should have fought? I can't.

 

He did?

 

irrelevant.

 

Don't insult Sly. He's far too intelligent to be Floyd. Plus all Sly's shit isn't paid for.

 

Difference is, Ray Leonard DIDN'T Have a "Pacquiao" Out There, that he was CLEARLY AVOIDING, the Way Floyd is Avoiding Pac..Floyd's Legacy will RIGHTFULLY B Diminished if the Pac Fight Doesn't Happen...There WASN'T a Guy THAT Important to Leonard's Legacy, Post "Pinnacle" Fights...

MANY Think Pacquiao is GREATER than Floyd, All Times...There WASN'T Anybody Gettting THAT Level of Praise in Regards to Leonard...& If there Was, Leonard WOULD Have Fought him...

Also, Lalonde, Hearns & Norris were MUCH Bigger Threats to Leonard than Marquez, Mosley & Ortiz were to Floyd...It's NOT Even Close...Leonard "Behaved" BETTER...Leonard Is/Was BETTER...



REED:kidcool:

 

Agree that Leonard didn't have a "Pacquiao" post pinnacle. Whether or not Leonard would have fought him is down to speculation. Leonard, Like Floyd, was PAST-Prime post pinnacle. The PACQUIAO in those days was Tyson...so Leonard didn't have a Pacquiao that he could actually fight. Leonard could have fought NUNN in 88/89 instead of faded hearns and Duran though but elected not too. So maybe he would have done the same with a Pacquiao.

Agreed that since Floyd DOES have a "Tyson" to fight in Pacquiao that he needs to fight him or his legacy would always have a "?" associated with it.

Lalonde was no threat. He was a pretty boy bum. Just happened to be much bigger than Leonard. Mosley was a bigger threat the Floyd than Lalonde was to Leonard.

Hearns appeared to be shot after fights with barkley and Olajide. Leonard was an overwhelming favourite going into that one to win by KO. Again we are talking about how the fights were perceived AT THAT TIME. Mosley was not a lesser threat than that in that Mosley in his previous fight looked like Superman against Margarito.

As it turns out Hearns gave Leonard hell, but that's irrelevant to what the perceived threat was going into the fight. It's not Floyd's fault that he battered Mosley. It's to Floyd's credit.

Norris, yes. Bigger threat. Leonard was OLD and becoming irrelevant and so tried to take on some young champion in his prime. I don't call that brave though, I call that stupid. Is Ali "BRAVE" for taking on a prime Larry Holmes when he was 38 and semi-retired? Was Louis "brave" in taking on Marciano when he was 103 years old? Was Jones brave in fighting Calzaghe? Chavez in fighting Tszyu? These weren't brave actions they were foolish/desperate/deluded actions.

 

Floyd is not brave nor stupid like Sugar Ray. That's why he won't fight Manny.

- Slystaff

 

Floyd is among the most courageous fighters in history. (nice quote for your sigs)

He'd fight anyone, as long as they are relevant (and drug free).

 

ugh, it's sickening, this drivel

 

"How dare anyone mention Leonard and Floyd in the same sentence"

That's what's sickening to you, elitist.

My logic is sound and indisputable. I'm like a man among boys here.

 

No I don't care if someone says Floyd's a great fighter, because he is

I just hate when people BLATANTLY LIE in order to support their argument... That's what you are doing

"Elitist" = person who knows more about boxing than you, apparently

 

:Alabama:

 

I agree that Floyd isn't afraid of any fighter. He's far too arrogant for that. He just wants the most $ for the least work, which is part of his arrogance as well.

 

Floyds proven himself a great 130-135lb fighter and a very good 140-147lb fighter (no more).

In terms of overall greatness I think he's proven himself on the 20-30 level with the potential of making 10-20 if he beats Pac. There's scope for reasonable higher opinions of him, stretching from top 15 in the first instance to top 7 in the second (ie without or with Pac win).

 

Cotto, Margarito and Williams were very relevant during 2007....esp Cotto...
who had beaten Judah and Mosley before Mayweather retired...

Margarito and Williams were the best fighters in the division prior to Mayweather coming in...regardless of who had the titles...Spinks, Judah, Bumdomir were just holding on to them because they had better backers.

Nobody wanted to fight WILLIAMS...okay no problem...

Margarito vs. Mayweather was a real fight that people were looking forward 2...even before Mar vs. Cotto...if someone was going to bring it to Mayweather it was Margarito.


Mayweather had EXCUSES just like he has them today....."Cotto need to leave his promoter, i'm my own promoter" "Cotto is young up and comer but he is not ready for me(but Ortiz was), "Who is Margarito? Nobody knows the guy(yet he fought Bumdomir and Ortiz when half the tickets were given away)"....

 

What would boxing be if everyone had that attitude? Dead is what it would be.

 

But everybody would be undefeated.

 

you know boxin'

 

...nice try. phonetap has 2,600 posts since 2003 and you have 21,000 since 2010. you need your stomach pumped son...:egypt:

 

And rich as fuck. :bears:

 

He retired once or twice back then, didn't he?

 

UNLIKE Floyd, Leonard DESERVES the Benefit of the Doubt, if U're Questioning Whether or Not he'd have Made Sure to Fight Any Pacquiao Equivalents, Post-Pinnacle Wins...N FEWER Fights, Ray Leonard has a SUPERIOR Resume to that of Floyd's....That's NOT Even Arguable...

In Addition to CONSIDERABLE Size, Lalonde had CREDIBLE KO Wins Over Eddie Davis & Leslie Stewart, 2 TOUGH Lightheavy's...Lalonde was a TRUE Banger who Could HURT Leonard "On Paper" & Followed Suit in their Real Life Meeting...Lalonde was MORE of a Threat to Ray Leonard, than Shane Mosley was to Floyd Mayweather...Mosley's Clearly the SUPERIOR Fighter, but he was LESS of a Threat to Floyd, than Lalonde was to Leonard...Watch the 2 Fights & Tell REED who was in MORE Trouble; who had to Overcome MORE Adversity to Win???...

Past his Best or Not, Thomas Hearns was ALWAYS Gonna B a TOUGH Fight for Ray Leonard...In we're Talking "Post-Pinnacle" Fights, Floyd's NOT Keeping Pace w/Sugar Ray Leonard...

Sorry...



REED:Lok:

 

Forget De La Hoya...HATTON meant more than Cotto, Margarito and Williams. Hatton was a top 5 P4P fighter and undefeated. Far more talk was around him than any of the aforementioned fuckers.

And before anyone says "he wasn't a Welterweight"..

FUCK YOU

Duran wasn't a Welterweight or Middleweight, Hearns, Mugabi, Leonard weren't career middleweights when Hagler fought them.

Fighting a top P4Pder from a weight class just below yours is AT LEAST as meaningful as fighting a top contender in your own weight class.

It's always been this way historically.

Inconsistent hypocritical motherfuckers....

 

If Hatton wasn't a welterweight, neither was Floyd. Hatton is the naturally bigger man, and weighed more on fight night (Hatton 152, Floyd 149). This is the stupidest excuse Hatton huggers/Floyd haters have ever used, worse than "the referee didn't let Hatton cheat."

 

What point are you trying to make?

 

*spoiler alert











Weights don't matter when it comes to Mayweather's fights but it does with Pacquiao's.

 

::

Lalonde had one functioning arm, was dragged down to a weight he couldn't make, was white, and was, to cap it all off, Canadian.

Shame on Ray if he tries to use that to boost his rep.

 

That was a disgraceful cherry picking title event by Leonard.

No doot aboot that one.

 

A dehydrated, one-armed, pale-face from British Columbia.

THEY COME NO MIGHTIER!!!!!!:scratcher:

 

Cherry picking "world" titles didn't start with Leonard. What made it worse was not even a catch-weight, but making the existing champion weigh in at an entire division below.