UFC 140 This Weekend: Jones vs. Machida

REED Looooooooooooooooooves Mir...

1st of All, for his ATTITUDE & More Importantly for his RESOURCEFULLNESS...The Way He Snatches SUBMISSION Victories from the Jaws of Defeat is a Beautiful Thing to Watch...

He's Another Guy where the ART of his "Mixed Martial Arts" Stands Out...Subbing Lesnar Early in his UFC Career is 1 Thing, but Subbing Nog & BREAKING his Shit is Ridiculous...



REED:cheer:

 

Yep, I agree. MMA, and the UFC specifically, don't give fighters any easy touches.

You won't see a Julio C. Chavez Jr. in the UFC with 152 fights and zero contenders on his resume. And thank god for that. MMA fans don't have to wonder and chat about who would win between Manny and Floyd or any fighters in the same weight class. The fights actually happen.

And yes, the side effect of that is that guys have multiple loses.

You look at an MMA newcomer like Brock Lesnar and his resume already contains the names of Couture, Mir twice, Shane Carwin and Cain Velasquez. Or a guy like Jon Jones. His MMA career is only 16 fights deep and already includes fights with Rampage, Rua, and Machida. Would it be surprising for either guy to have a few loses? Probably not.

Personally, I'll take guys with multiple loses as long as the best guys in each weight class fight each other. MMA would absolutely suck if people had to wonder if Jones could beat Rua or if Edgar can be Ben Henderson or if Cain can beat JDS.

Boxing and MMA are different sports. They are an apple to oranges comparison. Wins/loses and the monetary value of padded records are just a couple more reasons why they shouldn't be compared.

 

Yeah, I love Mir's bulldog Jiu-Jitsu. It's not fancy and is all about brute strength. If you don't tap, shit is going to break.

And Big Nog is an idiot. He tapped ANYWAY so why suffer this shit:

 

Jesus christ, that is fucking nasty. Poor Big Nog.

 

BTW regarding Big Jon, I agree he didn't really do anything wrong. He just let go and ran off without thinking, it's not his job to protect Machida etc.

I was just kind of surprised it happened like that. It was the referee's fault, because he knew Machida was out, that's why he stopped the fight, so he obviously knew he had to catch Machida to prevent him from flopping to the floor like an invalid ::

 

trp who won a fight between chuck/wandy in their primes or fedor/lesnar i missed both

 

Regarding the first one, they were in different organizations, but Chuck was slated to fight Wanderlei if he got past Quinton Rampage Jackson during the 2003 Total Elimination tournament. Chuck didn't get past Quinton, so Wanderlei fought Quinton instead.

As for Fedor/Lesnar, Fedor wasn't in his prime, and the UFC-M-1 rift is well-documented.

 

Hey idiot. We are talking about right now, today. Hence the reason I used current references like Manny, Floyd and JCC Jr.

Honestly, my point wasn't to slam boxing. It was to point out that things are different between the sports. Pro boxers use early career bouts to basically learn on the job. If you are in the UFC, you better have already learned your shit our your toast.

Again, I've loved the boxing model since I starting watching almost 40 years ago, and I don't really have too big an issue with it. But it's different from MMA and only a dolt would try to argue that. So, yeah, with that said, welcome to the conversation RJJ.

 

Wow, thank goodness someone remembers MMA history. Liddell-Silva COULD have happened but Jackson threw a wrench in the works.

Seriously, Liddell was the former and future UFC Champion at 205 and he takes part in the Pride Final Conflict Tourney which could have ended up with Silva versus Chuck in the final. But as Buddy said, Rampage threw a wrench in the works.

Unfortunately in single elimination tournaments, you don't get to keep fighting if you lose. Silly formats....

Oh, and the best point RJJ could have made was Couture-Fedor. That was probably the one that bothered me the most. That's rarely happens in MMA, but Fedor was too big to need the UFC.

 

Of course it was. It's cool.

 

How many times FIGHTERS quick tap the ref deoesn't see it or notice it, the submission is released and the fight goes on. You don't tap then get ready for it to SNAP.

Before Jones we had a new champion everytime who couldn't defend it. Rampage, Forrest, Evans, Machida, Shogun. The music has stop for awhile now with Jones KEEPING his chair and with his lanky reach, he has room to fight at heavyweight.

 

the classic different org reasoning. if thats the case floyd and many can use the same reasoning as they are with tr and gbp

 

depends on the loss

 

the ufc has a lot of guys who are big names but pretty much washed up. but since they never made huge money they want to continue fighting, and if pitted against fellow washed up or severely declined opponents they can continue on and compete.

 

Actually Bob Arum does appear to be stalling that matchup. I did you the courtesy of being both polite and serious, so your desultory "the classic different org reasoning" isn't needed towards me for one, and for two, in a way it's actually somewhat comparable to what is happening here. If you're under contract for one organization (the NHL), you can't compete for another without permission (the WHA), or you will get your ass sued off.

Like the NHL with the WHA, the UFC has merged smaller organizations into it and become stronger. In boxing, that would be like Arum or Golden Boy buying up most of the other boxers' contracts to get them all under one promotional banner---a monopoly.

It has the benefit of creating more opportunities for fighters to fight each other (like Don King's middleweight series of the 90s), but it also creates situations in which the best fighters still might not fight each other (RJJ and Toney were not part of Don's middleweight series, which ultimately failed).

Or it sets the stage for a fighter to be blackballed from competing against the UFC's roster: Paul Daley, Miguel Torres, Nate Marquardt.

The original point remains, however. Chuck was in a position to fight Wandy, but just like in boxing, you rarely see a champ fight someone who just lost in a fight that was supposed to build up to a fight of champs. Rampage beat Chuck, so Rampage got the opportunity to fight Wandy. The only problem was that after the UFC allowed Chuck to fight in Pride, the Pride organization went back on their words and refused to let Pride guys fight in the UFC. The UFC allowed Chuck in another organization on good faith, and they got burned by it---which is why you'll never see that happen again.

 

did you not read the part about the GP tournament?

 

Comparing two boxing promotional companies to two MMA promotional companies is stupid? I disagree and think that parallels can be found although perhaps it might be closer to the UFC's disagreement with M-1.

 

Jesus fucking christ, we got some skirt wearing vaginas complaining about Jones dropping Machida on the ground when seconds proir to that they are trying to take eachothers heads off. Some of you might want to take up knitting or basket weaving. Then we have the usual haters strolling in here after every event to tell us how great boxing is compared to MMA. This forum is like a fucking broken record.

 

Disagree on this point. Each company wanted to market their fighters as being the best fighters in the world. The UFC even went the route of trying to prove it by having Chuck compete in Pride a few times because they were convinced Chuck would win (so really that would be analogous to the NBA sending a team to compete against CSKA Moscow), AND Pride was supposed to send a few of their fighters to compete in the UFC. It didn't turn out that way.

 

Who fucking cares? This debate is a fucking decade old.

 

no shit man

Great night of fights! Definitely one I will keep on the DVR. The only question for Jones will be does he have to move up? The good thing is, he's young, so his body will be able to make that weight for a while I would think. But eventially he will have to go up to HW. I was a bit inoxicated, but was anything said of Jones' next opponent? When and Who?

 

:bears: He did.

 

He was at worst #2 at lightheavy. Couture got him the first time, but after that, Chuck was the man.

 

The only reason Chuck was allowed to fight in Pride was because he WASN'T champion at the time. I doubt he's involved with the Pride Tournament if he still held the belt.

But we are really making the water muddy here. The whole point was comparing Silva-Liddell not fighting in their primes to Manny-Floyd not fighting in their primes and the fact that typically the big matches are made in MMA.

It's really silly to even discuss it. Any idiot that follows both sports knows there is no comparison.

And it doesn't mean one sport is better than the other. It just means they are different. And there are many reasons. But for me, the key difference is that there is a much wider gap in boxing between the best fighters and average fighters. In my opinion, the difference between Anderson Silva and someone like Alexander Shlemenko isn't as big a difference as the gap between Andre Ward and Brian Magee.

Jon Jones might be the first MMA fighter that is truly on a different level than the other guys in the division. And again, the other guys aren't bums. There pretty good.