UFC 141 Lesnar vs Overeem

Discussion in 'General MMA Discussion' started by Rainmaker, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    While I agree that the UFC model is better than the boxing model, it is an obvious monopole. (Not that this is necesserly a bad thing)
     
  2. His_Royness

    His_Royness "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    If the list is THAT correct with the other fights, too you can throw it in the trash...
     
  3. The Genius

    The Genius DEMONRY!!

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    Those two lines makes it appear you want to argue over pretend numbers.
     
  4. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    Im not arguing over the pretend numbers, they are. The UFC only has to disclose the what fighters got paid for getting in the ring and fighting. They dont have to disclose how much money the fighter got for HOW they fought and they dont have disclose what a fighter's percentage is from a PPV purchase.
     
  5. The Genius

    The Genius DEMONRY!!

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    With respect:

    We only know whaat is released to the public

    you only know what the UFC wants you to know

    Both of those statements refer to amounts that we can't know and apparently exist although there is no evidence to back it up. Your statements make it out that the UFC doesn't want us to know about them. I submit to you that it is just as likely for these payments not to exist at all based on the evidence provided.
     
  6. Neil

    Neil tueur de grenouilles

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    not sure why the UFC would want to withhold information like this and make it seem like they are paying their top attractions peanuts
     
  7. The Genius

    The Genius DEMONRY!!

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    Me neither. :dunno:
     
  8. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Pretty much. It's an utterly absurd argument and has no evidence whatsoever.
     
  9. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    There is plenty of evidence provided. It's clear they get bonuses. It's clear they get PPV cuts. If that wasnt the cause, Overeem wouldnt be getting sued for said PPV percentages. Hel you got a thread on here that tells you overeem made about 2.3 mil for the fight.

    Now if that is still not good enough, that is your problem. The fighters seem pretty happy with this setup.
     
  10. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    Im sorry but there is no evidence of what? Bonuses and PPV percentages?
     
  11. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    There's ample evidence of bonuses, but where is the evidence of PPV cuts?

    What PPV cut did Cerrone get and approximate extra earnings? Is there evidence of that?

    Also, I would take that 2.3 million figure with a pinch of salt, it was on some random Polish website.

    If that's true then that's very respectable pay, more than I thought he would earn, I figured around 400/500k and only a possible KO of the night bonus or something. I don't believe it though.

    Also, it's actually NOT the top guys I have a problem with in the UFC, pay wise, it's more the mid level guys.

    Top guys getting 500k per fight is actually pretty good. They're still rich, the UFC has plenty of buffer cash in case something goes wrong, AND like someone else mentioned, it does mean they still have to fight to earn big bucks. Top boxers get paid so much they have no real need to fight unless they blow all their cash like idiots, so they can cherry pick to their heart's content like Floyd does.

    And journeymen shouldn't really get paid much because they're, well, journeymen.

    What I disagree with is solid, mid tier fighters like Cerrone getting 30k, when they're actually the supporting act in a PPV.
     
  12. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    Alistair Overeem being sued by KOI

    <CITE class=source>By Josh Gross
    ESPN.com\

    </CITE>Knock Out Investments, better known as Dutch fight management firm Golden Glory, filed a lawsuit in Clark County, Nev., Thursday alleging Alistair Overeem breached the terms of a five-year contract with the group.

    The complaint, a copy of which ESPN.com has obtained, also names Overeem's representative Collin Lam as a defendant. The filing comes one day prior to Overeem's headlining clash against Brock Lesnar at UFC 141 in Las Vegas.

    "We have a legal team," Lam told ESPN.com. "We have a great law firm in Las Vegas. A great law firm in LA. So they're taking care of everything."

    Overeem is alleged to have not paid a 30 percent commission to Knock Out Investments following his win in Strikeforce against Fabricio Werdum on June 18.

    Rather than following the arrangement Overeem and KOI used in previous bouts -- a promoter pays KOI, which in turn cuts a check to the fighter -- Overeem was directly paid his purse and win bonus totaling $170,000, which is standard practice when Zuffa LLC promotes events.

    Six weeks after beating Werdum, Zuffa, which purchased Strikeforce in March, released Overeem from the final fight of this three-bout deal with Strikeforce.

    Retained, however, were Zuffa's exclusive negotiating rights with Overeem. At the time Zuffa also parted ways with other Golden Glory-affiliated fighters, stating the Dutch firm's business practice of taking direct payment was antithetical to how the promoter operated.

    Still, KOI negotiated with Zuffa for Overeem's services and he signed a contract with the UFC on Sept. 6.

    In November, Overeem, through his counsel, sent a letter to KOI demanding monies owed. Overeem subsequently filed a lawsuit against the management group, asking for $151,000 and a court order to break the contract, which runs through July 2012.

    In interviews at the time, Overeem stated he left Golden Glory, with which he maintained an 11-year relationship before signing with the UFC, over a breach of trust. He maintained he was taken advantage of by Golden Glory.
    In the complaint filed against Overeem and Lam Thursday, KOI alleges that "subsequent to the execution of the UFC contracts, Overeem made numerous public statements that KOI/GG breached its fiduciary to him and that there was 'mistrust.' Overeem claimed that Zuffa's CEO, Lorenzo Fertitta told him in no uncertain terms that: there is a one million dollar 'signing bonus;' that the one million dollar signing bonus was Overeem's money and that KOI/GG was 'ripping him off' and 'stealing from him.'"

    Caren Bell, a representative for the UFC and Fertitta, said they had not seen a copy of the complaint and could not comment.

    The complaint does not state to whom Overeem made such claims. Lam, speaking for Overeem, declined to address specific allegations put forward in the 16-page document.

    Pursuant to the terms of Overeem's UFC contract as outlined in the complaint, he is guaranteed a "bout fee" of $264,285 on Dec. 30. Should he defeat Lesnar, Overeem would receive an additional $121,428 "win bonus." Overeem is also in line to receive a $2 pay-per-view bonus per viewer, "for all revenues received by UFC-Zuffa for telecast of the Lesnar fight in the United States, Canada or over the internet in excess of $500,000."

    Terms of the contract also guarantee Zuffa would pay Overeem $1 million spread out evenly over the first three fights of his deal, which is potentially good for up to eight bouts. Overeem is also expected to receive intellectual property payments for worldwide marketing of his likeness or image.

    Lam, whom KOI's legal counsel Rod Lindblom called "instrumental in having Alistair move away from Golden Glory and breach his contract," said Overeem, 31, is aware of the legal action, which "we knew was coming," and remains squarely focused on Lesnar.

    "The suit was filed for a very simple reason," Roderick J.Lindblom, legal counsel for KOI and Golden Glory, told ESPN.com. "Alistair Overeem has been part of Golden Glory for 11 years. Knockout Investment has a management contract with him. The management agreement was from 2007 until 2012. They negotiated one of the largest MMA agreements in the history of the sport for him. And within days he accused them of some pretty shady stuff that is not true. And he has walked away from his contract."
    Josh Gross covers mixed martial arts for ESPN.com.
     
  13. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    How much did Jorge Linares and Antonio Demarko get for their supporting roles in the Hopkins PPV? And did that include a bonus?
     
  14. steve_dave

    steve_dave Hard As Fuck

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    I'm pretty sure the Hopkins/Dawson show lost money. I know it was close to a record low for PPV sales, and I don't think it did well at the gate either.
     
  15. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    Poor PPV and Poor revenue, Cernone still would make the same including his bonus.
     
  16. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    The $2/viewer and sign on bonuses on your other post was relevant and good stuff and helps your side of the discussion.

    Defending $30,000 because it was guaranteed(!) regardless of ppv revenue only helps the other side. Failure to acknowledge how pathetic $30,000 (guaranteed!!) to a co-main event fighter on a $50 million ppv show makes you and anyone who takes your side on this point look ridiculous.
     
  17. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    30,000 for a Non title fight. And if he worked hard enough he could get more, which he did. He went home with 105k.
    You keep saying 50mill PPV. You do realize the PPV providers take half of that right?
     
  18. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    It doesn't matter what ppv providers take because the comparison is boxing ppv's and the ppv provider cut isn't discounted when talking about them.

    If he worked hard enough? Come on.

    Also, if the UFC hasn't worked out a deal to have far less taken out than the boxing ppv shows, I would be very surprised. The UFC brings something to the table that boxing promoters cannot--steady, frequent, consistent ppv events. Again, this is because they have an unfair advantage compared to boxing, but that is beside the point.
     
  19. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    You cant call a 1mil PPV buy 50 mil in revenue when the PPV provider takes half.

    And yes works hard enough. Which means wins in general, wins fight of the night, KO of the night or sub of the night. Strange concept to you i guess.
     
  20. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Whatever way you look at it 30,000 for a chief undercard bout on a BIG PPV card is fucking pathetic, I honestly can't believe you're trying to defend it. It's not like he was some journeyman opponent either.
     
  21. Anthony

    Anthony Admin Staff Member

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    He wasnt a journeyman opponent but he wasnt also fighting for the title. That was an non title fight against Nate Diaz. This is the same Cerrone that fought on a spike TV prelims in at UFC 137. So that is a pretty big jump from Free TV to the co-main event. He should be happy. And had he won, he would have made more money. At UFC 137, in which he won and wasnt on TV, he made 54k, not inlcuding KO of the night. Cerrone can determine his money in his fight. By Winning, KOs, Subs, FOTN, etc. There are so many ways he can make money.
     
  22. Trplsec

    Trplsec Sleeps in a Cage

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    My stance on what the UFC pays fighters has been made crystal clear.

    That being said, at first glance, I too was shocked the Cerrone only made $30K to co-main a Brock Lesnar card which is guaranteed to do more PPV sales than any other headliner the UFC has aside from MAYBE Jon Jones.

    But then I had to remind myself that Cerrone had a contract that pays him X number of dollars for 5 fights, which he signed when he was brought on-board from the WEC. So he would have been paid the same amount EVEN if he lost his last 3 fights and was buried 6 fights deep on a UFC Free on Versus event. Also keep in mind that Cerrone was only the 3rd or 4th best fighter on the WEC's LW roster. He didn't come to the UFC as a champion or even a former

    In Cerrone's case the contract backfired because he tore through his first 3 UFC bouts and became a relatively highly regarded guy. That being said, he also could have ended up like former WEC Champion Mike Brown who lost 2 of his 3 UFC bouts since coming over from the WEC and is now scheduled to be a support bout on the next FX card. Yet still gets paid what his contract guaranteed.

    As a huge NFL fan there is nothing that irks me more than a player that signs a 3 years contract and then has 2 amazing statistical seasons and holds out for more money unwilling to live up to his end of the 3rd year of the contract.

    I know if flies counter to the 'boxing model' but these guys DO sign contracts which both guarantees them a certain pay while the UFC is guaranteed NOTHING in return except for having A fighter on their roster and insurance doll.

    One other thing I'll add about Cerrone. He is also a guy that was popped for testing positive for a banned diuretic before. So he is on the Trplsec "Ban for Life" list anyway. :giggle:
     

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