Vazquez-Linares in the Works; Vazquez to open Boxing Gym!

Yes, I can. Israel basically loses the opening rounds of all his fights. Vasquez is a 12 round fighter though and his plan of attack has always been to hang around and live off the interest.

He will have little trouble finding Linares.

That said, I wouldnt be uprised if Issy is seriously on the way down. Its been a long time since he fought anyone but Marquez and right before that, he looked average. Golden Boy could be selling Vasquez off to make Linares the new star.

 

That's what I'm saying. This isn't just me hyping up Linares. Honestly, I expect both Marquez and Vazquez is plummet QUICK when they start fighting fresher guys. It's a gut feeling based on a pretty good hunch that they won't recover from the punishment they dished out on eachother.

Moving up in weight to fight a young, hungry world champion is a recipe for disaster for Vazquez. I would favor Linares big time.

 

I dunno. I mean, it was evident in his very next fight and the one after that and the one after that... that Corrales was done after the first Castillo fight.

But Vazquez looked just as fresh in the 3rd fight as the first. So I have a hard time believing the first 2 didn't "shoot" him, but the 3rd did.

Also I don't disagree with what Tam and co say.

The er... what's his name fight, fuck it, what IS his name, the one that looks like Willem Dafoe, LARIOS.

The Larios fight is the only one in which Lizard has looked spectacular.

I haven't seen his last fight though, I'll check it out.

Personally, I think Vazquez is a better fighter than Lizard, a brilliant fighter really, and a proven warrior. Who knows how much metal Lizard has.

But my doubts are based purely on size to be honest. Vazquez is SMALL, even at 122 he looks small, I think the last thing he should do is move up to featherweight.

Lizard looks like a decent sized featherweight too.

 

Vazquez is brilliant?

A little overboard, maybe.

 

Watch Marquez fights 2 and 3 and tell me Israel is not brilliant.

He is awesome to watch, powerful, skilled, tough, determined and the best 122 pounder in the world. Sounds like a brilliant fighter to me.

In fact, I would say it's not going overboard at all to call ANY legimitate world champion brilliant. They are the best in the world at their weight class. I'd say it's insulting to doubt their brilliance.

Unless of course we're talking about heavyweights :tease:

 

Israel Vasaquez is no more brilliant than any number of talented, exciting, brawlers who somehow managed to get KOed by Oscar Larios. In other words, not brilliant at all.

 

That's one loss.

He's proved himself to be the best 122 pound fighter in the WORLD.

If that's not a brilliant fighter, then what is? If you're legitimately the best fighter in your weight class, I think there's a pretty good argument to you being brilliant, regardless of what losses you have.

Tszyu is no more brilliant than a number of domestic level british fighters that got the shit kicked out of them by hatton and quit on their stool, ie - not brilliant at all. He is also no more brilliant than any other "Cool Vince" victim.

Aren't you a fan or Emile Griffiths and Ezzard Charles? They lost to a number of inferior fighters.

Vazquez destroyed Larios the last time they fought.

 

He proved himself the best 122 pounder in the world, by beating Oscar Larios? Wowzers. Pin the tail on the 122 champion and put him in the HOF. :doh:

 

Do you not agree that Vazquez is arguably the best 122 pounder in the world, with the best resumé?

 

So now its 'arguably', is it?

 

To me it's not, to me Vazquez is the best, and has the best record.

But in case you hold another belief, I'm asking you if you at least think there is an argument that Israel is the best 122 pounder in the world?

 

Of course there is. I never said otherwise.

 

That was an illusion. Marquez was just as, if not more faded.

 

Linares will knock Vasquez out. Linares is a classy fighter and Vasquez is made to order for him.

 

OK so now that's established, if a fighter is arguably the best in his weight class, and generally regarded as such, is it outrageous to call him "brilliant"?

The guy is arguably the best pro super bantamweight in the WORLD, and you think it's a stretch to call him brilliant? ::

No way Tam. I didn't think you were the kind of guy that would only think that a fighter atop the proverbial P4P lists was brilliant.

I think anyone who has made a claim to be the real champ in their weight class, the best in the whole world, is almost certainly a brilliant fighter.

That includes people I hate, like Casamayor and Tszyu.

 

What makes you think so SD?
That sure didn't look like 2 faded fighters going at it ::

Fuck me, if you want to see 2 faded fighters going at it, watch Roy - Tito or Vargas - Mayorga.

Do you see what I'm saying steve dave? Even though those 2 fighters matched 2 faded fighters, it was fucking obvious they were both faded ::

In Vazquez - Marquez 3, they were both fast, sharp, showed good reactions and defense, and even stamina. They didn't look remotely faded.

 

That's not what he said. He said, "he's PROVED [sic proven] himself to be the best 122 lber. in the world." As in as of now with his resume and performances, he can be considered the best superbantam.

Don't be contrarian and string people along with one-sentence posts, grump...make your whole point. :nono:

 

Thankyou :bears:

Tam is losing it. Too much red wine.

 

BTW...I think Vazquez gets most recognized for his toughness, determination, strength and stamina (and rightly so) - but I do think along the way his technical skill can be underrated, which may be MWS's point.

I don't know if he's "brilliant", but his footwork and ability to get inside need to be recognized, as should be his vast repertoire of punches, great punching technique to head and body, and his jab is increasingly getting better even now...as is his parrying and head movement which has improved....though he still gets hit too much.

That said...I do see some signs of slippage; and he hasn't faced anyone besides Marquez in the last year. Remains to be seen if his body can survive those three wars considering he already had some good mileage on it prior.

They both looked good (Marquez and Izzy) in the rubber match, but to me Vazquez looked a bit slower and less crisp than normal in terms of his punching and accuracy.

Seeing him with someone other than Rafael Marquez would be telling. I just don't think Linares should be that guy, at least not in the next fight.

Peace.

 

Oh yeah, absolutely. He has excellent timing, accuracy, an eye for openings, and general attacking skill. He is a skilled attacking fighter for sure.

He also has sneaky footwork, he is good at sort of sneaking in to close quarters.

If he was shit technically, he wouldn't have been as effective against Rafael.

Oh and actually I forgot about that to be honest, I just remembered what a good fight it was.

If you recall, I actually made a thread about t right after the fight asking "What was up with Vazquez?"

Not only did he look slower and less ferocious, he barely threw the left hook at all, and his crispness and accuracy wasn't quite there.

 

I remember. A few thoughts...

I think the 1-2 jab/right hand influence was due to Rudy Perez. Rightly so, Vazquez needed to increase the use of his jab and right hand vs. Marquez....and it worked.

I think along the way Izzy left his clean-up left hook in the doldrums, though, and that shouldn't have been a part of the equation.

I think Izzy probably executed a plan but not to excellence. When Vazquez started to put the left hook behind the straight right late, it really paid dividends for him.

The other point is....don't under-estimate the cumulative effect of fighting Marquez over three fights - or even within ONE fight.

Marquez punches extremely hard and is damned accurate, with a high workrate.

Wouldn't be surprised if that took its toll and that's what we saw with Izzy last fight.

BTW - Marquez also showed it too.

Both men will need a long time to recover.

Peace.

 

According to Ring Magazine, Robert Guerrero is #1 featherweight in the world. That makes him "arguably" the best featherweight in the world.

Is he brilliant?

 

Yes he is, without a doubt. He is perhaps the best featherweight in the world, of course he is a brilliant fighter.

 

Yes yes good points, perhaps you are right. I guess Izzy just didn't adapt his style as well as he should have. He switched from being a left hooker to being a 1-2 puncher and using the jab, instead of just adding them to his existing style.

It's true, when he started to include the left hook late, he busted Marquez up.

I hope they didn't take their toll that much on vazquez, not to the extent that one fight affecting chico for example.

You have to admit, Morales and Barrera are both extremely tough. How many fighters have a fight like their first one, and are really not any worse for wear afterwards? Certainly not many.

 

I have to go with Vazqez. I also think the Marquez/Vazquez might have taken something out of both fighters. But I have to see them back in the ring to see it.

Linares is a decent champion and nothing more. I don't understand people overrating at this poing.

His biggest win was against a shot Larios. He has no wins against elite fighters which is what Vazquez is right now.

there isn't even any elite fighters at 126 they are all young champions.

 

Larios is also the last fighter Vazquez fought who wasn't coming from a lower weight class.

Gonzalez, Hernandez, Marquez...all guys moving up.

 

Verno Phillips is brilliant!

 

So is Jose Armando Santa Cruz! :bears:




































:shit: :doh:

 

If So, that "Brilliance" is Very, VERY Understated...


REED

 

It IS under-stated...it's subtle-like.