Vernon Forrest vs Pipino Cuevas

Biological age doesnt means everything, but it sures has a lot of importance when it comes to determinig if one is shot or not. You're using the same logic than Tyson fans use (and ironically enough, you're one of the first to call them on it).

Cuevas has the shortest prime ever according to you. He wasn't in his prime before winning his title, he was badly shot after the Hearns fight, so it means that his prime didn't even last 4 years !!!

 

he was completely ruined by the Hearns defeat... this is common knowledge and obvious enough just watching any of his fights after Hearns ... He lost a decision to Roger Stafford, for god's sake, exactly the kind of guy he was walking over in 2 rounds a couple of years earlier

Was Lionel Rose in his prime when he was 23? Was Benitez at 25?

Cuevas was a 17 year old kid when he destroyed Angel Espada (a world-class welterweight) to win the title in 1976... Over the next four years he defended it 11 times, 10 by KO... Basically from 1974-Hearns, he lost one fight (to the tricky Andy Price, which ironically led Espada's people to pick him to "tune up" against for an upcoming defense against Miguel Campanino... Of course Cuevas wound up destroying both of them) ... That's his "prime" ... About 6 years... Seems pretty typical, especially for a fighter with his style. And he lost his title in the most devastating fashion imaginable. It's not like it was a close decision loss or something.

 

Maybe he was ruined mentally by the Hearns defeat, but he sur as hell wasn't ruined physically (and then, it just shows that he was a mentally weak fighter, not really something i would use to defend him). The dude was 25 years old, and while he got hit a lot, most of his fights were short. Even his defeat to Hearns wasn't really brutal, he was catching a beating, but it wasn't long enough to be a career threatening defeat. He wasn't even out when the fight was stopped. These shot excuse are just bullshit imo, like most of the times they're used. Case in point, David Reid, some people act like he would have a way better career, if he hadn't fought Tito that early, while it's obvious to me that his mental weakness would have always prevented him from having one. Same thing apply to Cuevas. The guy was just a very overrated puncher, who wasn't good enough to have succes consistenly, and was wiped out like a scrub the only two time he fought real elite fighters.. He has shown nothing that can make me think that he has more than a slim puncher chance against a fighter of the caliber of Forrest

 

He wasn't good enough to have success consistently yet he reigned as a champion for four years and KO'd 10 of 11 challengers (and this was at a time when there were just two titles... no interim shit, no super belts, no WBO, no IBF... there was just Cuevas and Palomino)

Impeccable logic

David Reid's weakness was "mental?" His weakness was being a defensively flawed boxer with a shaky chin... He'd already looked like shit before he ever fought Trinidad and he got the crap kicked out of him... You spotted some mental weakness as the culprit?

 

Being good for 4 years, and losing to everyone decent before and after that is not what I would consider consistency. it's called having a good streak. And let's not act like his challenger were a murderer's row. he had some good fighter in there (Ranzany, shield, Gray), but he also faced a lot of garbage.

And yes it was obvious that Reid was weak mentally even before the Trinidad fight. he was having mental lapse and didn't reacted well to opposition..

 

LOL, so if Reid had been more mentally tough, he would have done what exactly??

You forgot Campanino and Espada, BTW... Both good welterweights... Both utterly battered

"Having a good streak" ... Did Eusebio Pedroza have one of those, too, with his 19 title defenses? After all he lost three times before he won his title (including a crushing KO loss to Alfonso Zamora) and he lost it to Barry McGuigan... Was he weak mentally before, got strong mentally and then became weak mentally again?

 

dont' know, I'm no prophet, and I don't know what would happen in alternate dimension. One thing is for sure, he would have been a better fighter. Mental stenght can bring you really far in boxing.

Oh yeah, Pedroza reign that lasted 8 years, and in which he faced and defeated elite level opponents, is a good comparaison to Cuevas reign that was half as long, and who never won against elite opposition.

You're getting desperate

 

I'm getting desperate?

You actually think mental toughness is the reason David Reid had a poor career?

 

Never said that it was the only reason, but it clearly was one of the big reasons he was a bust.

 

gimme a tangible example of Reid's lack of mental toughness