Ward 168, Abraham 167

Shut the fuck up.....but the fight should not be in Oakland or wherever it was last night......if Froch wins over Johnson then it should happen in the UK...but it won't....So Oakland it is...:cheer:


The right man won last night though...in Germany is the same fight with Abraham winning 120-108

 

El, I'm not trying to be a prick here, but do you realise now that Arabham simply isn't very good at world level?

 

Abraham is boring as hell to watch.

Froch would beat ward imo. Ward isn't that great.

 

He was a world class mw, watching him at smw is akin to hatton at ww

 

Depends what you mean by that? Stamina, confidence and will/heart are bigger problems than his lack of boxing skills. I can´t think of another top ten fighter in the world that has worse stamina. You simply can´t compete at this level without proper stamina. Three rounds, really?

Once the opponents start punching back, he gives up. He´s scared to get hit cleanly, maybe a consequence of the Miranda fight, maybe he has always been that way.

We have no real sign of Abraham ever getting into a firefight with anyone.

That makes him very predictable with his slow feet and turtle defense. If you aren´t willing or able to throw punches, you are not beating anyone, whether you are as skilled as Arthur Abraham or Roy Jones.

So yes I think he has the skills to be a better fighter than he showed in the last three fights. I doubt he has the will, brain, or the right trainer/team to reach a different level.

Freddie Roach was mightyly impressed in the way Abraham took apart his man Ikeke in five rounds to win the IBF middleweight title, using head movement, jabs, feints, bodyshots, straight punches. Maybe Freddie doesn´t know boxing either.

..and what Salaco said. He just can´t make it at super-middleweight. That he complains about weight cutting at 168, just like he does at 160, shows that he either is making excuses or his training is seriously messed up. He´s 5´8. Nobody in the top 15 at 168 or 175 is that small.

 

Nobody at 168 is "great". But Ward, even though not fun to watch, is probably the best.

Lets not OVERRATE Froch now. He got outboxed most the way by Taylor, and was in large part outboxed by Dirrell.

Ward is quicker, more fluid, and more talented than Taylor, and has more brains than Dirrell.

As Muzse said.... Froch has no chance of outboxing him. His only shot is to force to an ugly war. But unfortutely for Froch, Ward knows how to fight ugly. So essentially, Froch is gonna have to land something big and get Ward outta there.

 

Yes, the Super 6 has been non-stop highway robbery.

 

Yeah I can't say I'm a fan of Ward, but he's very good. Ive become a big fan of Froch and he will have his moments but there's no way I can see him winning.

 

Pretty much every fighter has claimed at some stage, and not without credit, to have been ripped off in some sense.

Dirrell claims he beat Froch, Froch thinks he beat Kessler, Froch wouldn't fight Abraham in Germany, Kessler had his melon sliced open by repeated butts from Ward, Ward got bonus points for NOT fighting, after his mooted opponent had basically quit after being clocked on the ground, a fight which Fatty Ward wanted 3 American judges for, despite one of the fighters being in America, in his hometown, against a non-American, who was eventually DQ'd ::

Its been pretty unsatisfactory no matter what way you dice it.

And Ward is a boring hometown fuck whose existence makes a mockery of the "never fight in Germany" lot.

 

Froch would have to set the tone from the off vs ward, not allow ward to get into any rhythm, beat ward to the jab and cut off the ring which would be difficult.

Ward tends to duck down alot - a good stiff overhand right after a jab from froch could disrupt ward, but froch's timing would have to be spot on as ward is faster.

 

Yeah, I noticed that too, but AA doesn't have the right punch for that. I think you need either a right uppercut crossing over to that side or a straight right firing at a downward angle. Ward took his eyes off of AA a lot with his ducking routine. It's not the easiest maneuver to capitalize on, but I think it does leave him at least a little vulnerable.

 

I thought you could make a case for Abraham in rds 1-3, 11 and 12. He had the huge punch lead after 2 rds...I really didn't like that 120-108 card, but maybe things looked different at ringside. AA didn't really dominate any round so a shutout, I suppose, was possible, but probably not accurate.

 

Dude, Abraham could have straight racked up the first 3 rounds, with a knockdown, and STILL lost that fight 120-108

 

....but if you throw that punch in Oakland you get warned and later disqualified for punching behind the head. :Hanzkiller:

Sometimes I watch ESPN2 undercard fights and think the main reason some of these fighters never made it is they are too honest. They don´t hold, they don´t run, they don´t duck below the waistline, they don´t complain to refs all the time. They have a regular job, show up and do stupid honest boxing to entertain the fans. Today you can count the top fighters that are also top entertainers on one hand.

 

The referee was sucking Ward's dick throughout the fight, much as Cortez sucked Floyd's pecker against Hatton. Things end up far enough apart in those fights that the influence of the ref will get dismissed, but you get a ref who starts warning Ward for ducking and diving and holding and taking points...Abraham's chances would have been much better. He only landed his best shot a few times in the whole fight.

 

Agree. He doesn't want to go back to 160 (and he knows what's best for him in that regard) and he should have performed better in every fight he's lost even if he didn't win them all.

 

The judges can have it whatever way they want. With the judges, you got a 2 out of 3 chance of a fair shake. With a bent homer of a ref, you're fucked, right from jump street.

Arthur was never going to win that fight, but the 120-108 just confirms that Ward is being looked after, right down line. Right now he is a precious commodity- an American fighter who can fight, is active, undefeated and on the verge of winning a major tournament.

A Hindu Cow in the middle of Devali has a better shot at being fucked over than Ward does.

 

Where is the final meant to be staged?

 

(1) He's even precious to mE because of the dearth of American fighters and I fight the Yankee lick at every opportunity I notice it. I do like Ward's personality, I think he is a superb fighter, and I want him to do well. The thing with the Super Six is that I like all of the fighters involved and the only one who really turned mE off was Andre Dirrell with his ghetto bullshit leading up to the Froch fight on Fightcamp 360. That particularly hurt because I had been a Dirrell fan longer than anyone I know...going back to his featherweight days when I saw him whip a kid at the us nationals and I mailed a vhs copy of the fight to several people.

(2) :: Nice.

 

The PROBLEM w/Irish's "Conspiracy" Theory is that Ward has CLEARLY Defeated EVERYBODY he's Faced in the Tournament, w/Little or NO Fuss Whatsoever...His Wins were Sooooo COMPREHENSIVE to Where the Location was IRRELEVANT...

Moreso, when Carl Froch DIDN'T Want to Fight in what he Perceived to B his Opponents Hometown, he DIDN'T...Froch had NO MORE Leverage than Kessler Did, yet he Put his Foot Down & GOT what he Wanted...If Guys DON'T WANT to Fight in Oakland or California, for Fear of WardISH Favoritism, they Should Speak Up PRIOR to the Fight...

All the HINDSIGHT Bitching Carries the STENCH of Sour Grapes...




REED:boohoo:

 

Irish is just a little sore than an American has outclassed all the Euro's so far. It wasn't supposed to be this way, man.

 

Sour Grapes? The only fighter in this tournament I ever had the slightest concern for or care for was Arthur Abraham.

He was pretty badly fucked over in Michigan and you have stated as much as same. Even before the fight, Fatty Shaw was loading the affair with 3 American judges.

I'll deal the cards and you just say SNAP whenever you feel like it, but Ward is well looked after, and NOBODY is getting a fair shake in Oakland vs Ward.

There has been plenty of BS in this tournament- I think Dirrell beat Froch, on a 10-point must system, and I said as much as same at the time of the fight. Froch won the "fight" but Dirrell should have won on the cards.

The point about Ward is no different to any other point I have made, but you are acting as if I said what I said in an a vacuum. Wards BS is specific to Ward, but that doesn't mean it is the ONLY BS in the tournament.

 

The fight last night wasn't in Oakland.

And AA wasn't fucked in Michigan.

Still, the great part about this tournament was the idea that each fighter would get to fight at home and on the road. It's fucking bogus that Ward hasn't fought in Europe yet. I agree there.

Still, he's been so much better than the others so far that it really hasn't mattered.

 

:wack:

Abraham was Fucked Over by DIRRELL, NOT The State of Michigan, Dude...DIRRELL Faked his Way Out of the Fight, but the Bottom Line is, Abraham DID Clearly Hit him while he was Down...But The Locale of the Fight had Absolultey NATHAN to Do w/it...That'd B like REED Blaming New Jearsey for Montell Griffin's QUITJOB vs. Roy, which REED Has Never & WOULD NEVER Insinuate...

Ward has Won EVERY Super 6 Fight By Wiiiiiiiide Margins....Sooooo Wiiiiiide, that the Location was IRRELEVANT...If Ward even had a 7-5 or 8-4 Type of Fight, your "Point" Might BEGIN to have Some Validity to it...But the Fact that Ward has Won 9-10 Rounds MINIMUM, in EACH of his Super 6 Bouts, SHITS on your Conspiracy Theory, Dude...

Dirrell-Froch was a CLOSE Super 6 Fight that COULD have Gone Either Way....Andre Ward has YET to Encounter That...He's Racking Up Clear-Cut UD's Because he's BETTER than the Guys he's Fighting, NOT Because he's Been Fighting in Oakland....



REEDhno:

 

We don't know if it would matter or not. Lots of fighters have their worst performances when they have to travel.

 

If you are allowed

to duck below the opponents waistline,
to hold,
to hit low and after the break
to lead with your head
AND of course you are pretty good,

how is that not supposed to put an opponent at a serious disadvantage?

Did the ref single out Ward once last night. NO. He always warned both fighters, although Abraham didn´t do anything. I´m sure if Abraham actually threw punches he would have been warned for them as well. ::

 

Of course you can win comfortable 10-2 decisions, if you take away the ability of the opponent to hit you with your illegal (defensive) tactics as much as your boxing skills.

 

agREED...

& it Makes it Appear that Ward COULD have a Built-In Advantage Fighting @ Home, but NONE of his Super 6 Fights Indicates that he's NEEDED it, Thus Faaaaaaaaaaaaar....



REED:hammert:

 

Who said it was? :dunno: California.

I can live with this....but it was a 50-50 call, and a lot of people felt Dirrell could have continued. The guy supposedly pulled out because of the injury sustained from same, but is now sparring George Groves for the DeGale match.

He doesn't have to fight in Europe. I would settle for Canada.

The referee+the location, rather than the strict location, is the crux of the issue. Ward fights in a style whereby the little things, such as the break, the clinch, and how those are adjudicated, makes a significant difference.

Its how the referee is responding, as much as it is the strict location, but I have a feeling that the location is dictating how the referee responds.

 

Here is the thing Reed: if you said that the judges being American made no difference, I would agree. Ward is winning the fights. But...if the referee had a different interpretation of the rules, and applied that interpretation accordingly, you could see the judges become more of a factor.

In Europe, there is EVERY chance that Ward would have been DQ'd vs Kessler and been forced to fight different fights because the referee would have obliged him to.

Not saying that per se is correct, but it is pertinent.

It should be borne in mind at all times that I was the one who started the thread about Froch being an "Unconscionable Bitch" some time ago when he started to moan endlessly about fighting in Germany.

Abraham has now fought once in Germany, once in Michigan, once in Finland and once in California. He is 1-3 in terms of "fighting at home".