WHAT have we LEARNED???...(The Taylor-Pavlik AFTERMATH Thread)...

If you guys can't tell the difference between the damage Pavlik took and the damage Taylor took, then it's a good thing Smoger was the ref, and not one of you.

 

Good thing for Pavlik.

 

Have you not wondered why Taylor himself has not complained about the stoppage? He was out, like Marvis Frazier in the corner, only without the blowjob.

 

In Tyszu-Judah...Zab made more of an effort to get up than Taylor did.

Hell...Jones-Tarver II...Roy made more of an effort to get up than Taylor did.

Jermain was out. He was out before he hit the canvas. The left uppercut was vicious, but the second to last lefthook left him prone and caused him to slump to the canvas.

 

i learned that taylor is what he is and has been. a mediocre boxer who has gotten away w/ great athleticism.

 

No more racial slurs or indirect insults.

Knock it off, Kauki.

 

Exactly. It's hilarious to read this debate. ::

If anything, Smoger was "caught in the middle" because he was trying to give Taylor the benefit of the doubt....but Jermain wouldn't quite go down on his own. You can see Smoger start-stop 1-2 times before actually jumping in.

He was waiting for Taylor to actually fall so that he could count him and you could see he was trying not to HAVE to wave it off....

But Taylor was in slow-motion; with his hands up - but they were up out of habit and because he was basically frozen and out by then. HIs hands were simply locked there....he wasn't "thinking defense" by that time.

Smoger had no choice but to jump in - and that's when Taylor finally slumps to the canvas.

It was awkward, but clearly Taylor was out.

Peace.

 

http://www.ringtalk.com/index.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=1593

Somebody should tell Pedro Fernandez that just because Pavlik is an American, that does NOT make him "UNDISPUTED MIDDLWEIGHT CHAMPION".


Taylor was DISPUTED from day 1.

How?

Simple.

The bogus nature of his wins over Hopkins, and the dross he defended the belts against.

As long as Abraham and Spurm are out there {both of whom have fought arguably better comp that Taylor, -with the clear exception of Hopkins} and hold titles, then Pavlik CANNOT be Undisp.

He might be #1, but undisp? No chance.

Atlantic City, NJ- The middleweight (160 lb.) division has been called the working man’s weight class because in the 1940s and 50s, an average blue collar guy weighed around 160. From a city that was all about being blue collar, Youngstown, OH, came Kelly Pavlik, the son of a Union Steel Worker who goes to bed tonight the undisputed world middleweight champion, this after a 7th round knockout of the defending titleholder Jermain Taylor. Time was 2:14.

 

http://www.ringtalk.com/index.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=1593



"Atlantic City, NJ- The middleweight (160 lb.) division has been called the working man’s weight class because in the 1940s and 50s, an average blue collar guy weighed around 160. From a city that was all about being blue collar, Youngstown, OH, came Kelly Pavlik, the son of a Union Steel Worker who goes to bed tonight the undisputed world middleweight champion, this after a 7th round knockout of the defending titleholder Jermain Taylor. Time was 2:14."

Somebody should tell Pedro Fernandez that just because Pavlik is an American, that does NOT make him "UNDISPUTED MIDDLWEIGHT CHAMPION".


Taylor was DISPUTED from day 1.

How?

Simple.

The bogus nature of his wins over Hopkins, and the dross he defended the belts against. Prior to Pavlik, of course {not that Pavlik was a fucking scalp hunter either!}

As long as Abraham and Spurm are out there {both of whom have fought arguably better comp that Taylor, -with the clear exception of Hopkins} and hold titles, then Pavlik CANNOT be Undisp.

He might be #1, but undisp? No chance.

 

Yeah, he was carried out on a stretcher and never uttered a word when he was being pinned down. Not everyone cries like a bitch, he knew he shouldn't have been caught with that punch, he left it as it is and wants and IMMEDIATE rematch. Hopefully he will get a ref that will stop it next time that is fair on stoppages.

 

If smoger was on top of Roy, he wouldn't have made an effort YOU COULD SEE anyway.

 

The benifit of the doubt? Like Pavlik

His hands were up by habit? :laughing:

 

Again - if you can't see the difference between Pavlik in the 2nd and Taylor in the 7th - then there's not much we can talk about. :dunno:

And btw - that "big shot" that sent Pavlik stumbling was an illegal shot clearly to the back of the head.

And yeah - Taylor's hands were up but he was FROZEN. He was non-responsive...and was only going to take even more punishment. That's what "by habit" means - boxers are drilled to keep their hands up when being punched at against the ropes - hell, it's reflexive human nature. HABIT.

You can insert "reflexively" if it makes you feel better. ::

Let 'em have their rematch, if Taylor wants it, and we can all see Taylor KO Pavlik in the 2nd so you can celebrate.

Peace.

 

Smoger kops a lot of criticism, but I think he got this one bang on.

This could have been Paret-Griffith all over again, with a defenceless fighter trapped in the corner being pounded on.

 

Instinct even. When humans are faced with an overwhelming physical force that they can't resist they go into a shell and just try to wait it out. Guys who have nearly been eaten alive by Lions have said that they entered a trance like phase where they just waited for the mauling to end or be stopped, i.e. they didn't consider resistance at all. They just tried to let it pass.

 

No way. Taylor was the undisputed champ due to his win over Hopkins and when Pavlik defeated Taylor he became the Undisputed Champ. No other middleweight has a legitimate claim to the title. The fighters you mentioned are nothing but contenders for Pavlik's World Championship.

 

I can see many, many more unanswered punches. It should have been stopped. You can't tell me that you honestly believe it would have been a poor stoppage.

 

TOTAL BOLLOX.

Abraham defended his IBF belt versus Miranda and was the first fighter to beat Miranda.

That gives him a claim.

I have no gripes with people who think Pavlik is #1.

But Undisputed? No way.

 

Maybe people should drop the term "undisputed" and just call 'em linear champs. The term undisputed clearly loses its meaning the moment anyone DISPUTES it.

 

"Habit" is ridiculous btw. You want to act like instinct was holding his hands up and he was unable to hold them up without some kind of freak involuntary motor response......you got issues.

 

No one disputes you're shot. :dunno:

 

And, thus, it is disputed.

Pavlik isn't even Linear champ....Abraham has the IBF belt which HOPKINS took into the fights with Trinidad and Holmes.

At best,, Pavlik is #1, consensus/popular/peoples/white-american/heard-of-by-people-that-follow-UFC- champ. How the fuck he gets there by beating Miranda and Taylor alone is another argument, but, for the time being, we can accept it.

Undisputed....nah. Toss that shit out.

 

That is true...fans of any fighter with a half-assed (or even less) claim can claim the title is "disputed".

 

I do.

 

Yeah.

Ikeke
Jantuah
Miranda

Thats some half assed shit. Right there.

And thats not to mention the damage that was done by Taylor to HIS OWN "Undisp" status by NOT beating Hopkins and then defending against dross and bantamweights.

 

How does he???


Fucking Paret was holding himself up in the exact same way vs Griffith.

And he was totally out of it.

If people can walk in their sleep then they can sure as all hell hold their hands up whilst being beaten to death.

 

Bernard was the IBF Middleweight Champion FOREVER...

He then Beat Keith Holmes for the WBC Title & Tito for the WBA Title (in the Middleweight TOURNAMENT)...

THEN, Bernard Beat DeLa for the WBOgus Middleweight Title...

Is ANYBODY Disputing that Bernard Hopkins was THE Middleweight Champion when Jermain Taylor Beat him???:dunno:

By that Logic, NOBODY Can Argue w/Kelly Pavlik NOW Being Called THE Middleweight Champion of the World...

He BEAT the Man who BEAT the Man who UNIFIED All the Belts...PERIOD...

Kelly Pavlik's THE Middleweight Champion of the World...The W.H.O. or the H.2.O. may have their Own Version, but Who gives a Shit...


REED

 

that i disagree with. the point you overlook is that Hopkins beat Trinidad and Holmes to lay claim as undisputed champ, thus creating a new title lineage. It's not the IBF (or any random alphabet) title you follow, but who beats who in the ring. Hopkins lost to Taylor (or at least the judges), who lost to Pavlik. That's a direct lineage, which makes Pavlik the linear champ.

To his credit, though, at least Pavlik acknowledged the existence of Abraham and Sturm, saying he won't consider himself undisputed until he faces and beats both. Whether or not Arum makes those fights happen is another story.

 

No one disputes Bernard...most dispute Taylor beat Bernard....which makes him kinda like the Sac Kings during C Webb's days...you preferred to called them the "uncrowned champs."

 

And I am therefore the undisputed greatest shot poster of all time.