WHAT have we LEARNED???...(The Taylor-Pavlik AFTERMATH Thread)...

Taylor defeated Hopkins and then became the Middleweight Champion of the World. Pavlik defeated Taylor to become the Middleweight champion of the world. Abraham won a vacant alphabet belt and has since made a few defenses of his "title". Abraham has no legitimate claim to the Middleweight title as he did not defeat the real champ.

If Abraham defeats Pavlik, then I will be happy to consider him the real champion. Until then, he is just a contender for Pavlik's title.

 

EGG-zactly!!

 

I am working from home today, so I just rewatched it twice.

It's absolutely two different scenarios, bro.

Look, I am one of the few saying the fight was competitive and I had it 3-3 (Taylor up 57-56) going into the 7th (with the 5th being a swing round).

But when Pavlik was hurt and dropped in the 2nd - he was still responsive and still MOVING. Yes, he was getting caught by occasional clean shots (many more were pure arm shots that landed with Taylor's forearms or punches that didn't land clean)....

But Kelly was trying to crouch, walking towards Taylor, trying to clinch him and avoid shots. He was RESPONDING and moving his legs. He got up on the count of TWO and then was able to control his body.

20-30ss later (by the :50 mark) he is already returning fire.

What you fail to realize is that in the 7th, Taylor was UNRESPONSIVE. Pavlik was standing in front of him, teeing off with abandon - and Taylor could do NOTHING about it.

He had his arms up ON INSTINCT...and that was it. He wasn't moving his head, wasn't trying to clinch, wasn't moving his torso...hell, he wasn't even looking at Pavlik! He looked an AWFUL lot like the position Paret assumed vs. Griffith, actually.

Quantity of punches will NEVER equal QUALITY of punches landed.

What would you have said had Smoger stayed out - and Pavlik continued to punch an unresponsive Taylor with 10, 15, 20 FULL-ON powershots?

I wonder.

And btw - it is absolutely false that Smoger "prevented" Taylor from standing or that he had a knee in his crotch.

1- Taylor slumped to the canvas ON HIS OWN - as Smoger moved in.
2- Look at the slo-mo and the pictures - Smoger's knee isn't on Taylor; it's beside him.

Was Taylor close to stopping Pavlik in the 2nd? Sure - dropped him and hit him with clean shots.

SHould it have been stopped? No.

Is it the "same" as what happened in the 7th? No.

Fight played out correctly.

Peace.

 

Taylor was not getting up in the 7th. He didn't even try and he was DONE! Anyone disputing this is just a Taylor nuthugger. PLain and simple.

Why should the ref have stopped the fight in the second? Pavlik beat the count, walked towards smoger and he let the fight continue just like any ref would have done.

 

I agree 100% ....

Pavlik got up at the count of 2 and it was clear that he was thinking & taking steps in order to survive the rest of the round.
Taylor however was out. I'm not even sure he knew at that very second that it was being stopped. His head was down and his body was already slumping down to the canvas where he stayed long after the fight was stopped.
He didn't complain - he physically couldn't complain like some fighters are able to do.
He didn't even stand up for approximately a minute or so.

 

TRANSLATION: The fry machine broke and the restaurant is closed.

 

Yes, but you have your broom and there are trash bags waiting for you just outside the door.

Get to it.

 

You are one deluded sumbitch.

The belt which Taylor "took" off Hopkins is the very same IBF belt that Abraham has.

 

Not bloody likely...

I was promoted to Drive-Thru last week.

:cheer:

 

More deluded nuthuggery.

Abraham is a legitimate claimant. He has that by taking Bernards old IBF belt and defending it in comprehensive fashion in the meantime. He fought and beat Miranda when PavliKKK was fighting, uh, Sancho Panzo or somebody.

That makes him a legitimate claimant.

If you like, You and the rest of the Pavlikkers can have Kelly in at #1

But he ain't undisputed, not by a country fucking mile. You can dress it up any way you like, but Arthur Abraham is undefeated and has a title. Throw in wins over Ikeke, Jantuah and Miranda, and brother, we have us a dispute.

 

It's not a promotion, it's a "broadening assignment" so that you learn to speak to customers nicely on your way to the dumpster.

 

Someone was sick and he had to double-job. He thinks he got promoted. He was just double jobbing.

 

Knock off the insults.

That being said...don't deviate and pretend you don't understand...:nono: B'wayJoe didn't say "IBF title" - he said CHAMPION OF THE WORLD.

That means linear title; irrespective of trinkets.

Hopkins had it. Taylor took it. Pavlik now has taken it.

I don't believe in "linear" theory much anymore, but if anyone had claim to be "THE MAN" at 160 - it was Taylor.

That doesn't minimize Arthur's standing in the division or the fact that he is a titleist.

And you know as well as I do that Abraham fought for a VACANT title....which Taylor dropped. It wasn't "Bernard's old belt" - it was Taylor's.

Taylor won it in the ring against the unified and undisputed champ.

Peace.

 

Was Lennox Lewis undisputed going into the Vitali fight???

Let's not muddy the waters.

Undisputed, as evidenced by Holyfield-Lewis, means WBA/WBC/IBF

You can have "the man" , "one of ours", "lineal", "linear" and all that shit afterwards.

I am talking UNDISPUTED...which is something Pavlik ISN'T

 

Well, it seems the whole thread has gotten muddied.

You are choosing to go by the literal, legalist definition of "undisputed" - which means the fighter in question literally must have every plastic belt out there.

Ok, so be it.

I think others are saying that's not what really matters. It's more about who has beaten the consensus/linear champion in the ring and has the more legitimate claim to having beaten the top fighter(s) in the division.

I fall into the latter camp.

But even looking at it your way - Abraham fought for a vacant title which Taylor dropped (did not lose it in the ring).

Hence, by beating Taylor, Pavlik still has more of a claim than Arthur does.

Abraham is more of a contender to the title of consensus best ("undisputed" as defined by linear progression).

Ok, enough with this stuff. I don't have the energy to follow this stuff nowadays.

Peace.

 

Good post. As long as their is some alphabet "title" out there with someone willing to "defend" it, there will always be some nuthugger of that "champion" trying to claim that he has a legit claim to the title. It's really weak.

The bottom line is that Pavlik won the World Middleweight Championship Saturday night and no amount of Euro-hugging Bellyaching will change that. Abraham did not win his "title" from the Middleweight Champion and has no legit claim to the title.

 

What's funny is that this is as simple as it gets, Pavlik beat the man (Taylor), who beat the man (Hopkins) who was the Undisputed champion. Anything else is just a smokescreen. Folks can split hairs this if they like, but the bottom line is that Pavlik is the Middleweight Champion of the World.

 

its is unfortunate that Pavlik won't stick around at that weight for too long. he's a formidable fighter, he should clean out 168 when he chooses to move on, I hope it is sooner rather than later, for making 160 must be really weakening him.

 

Yeah, just like you can fuck when you are passed out

Sleep walking and being knocked out is the same, I've heard it all now.

 

He wasn't teeing off on shit, he missed those shots in the 7th. They even slowed it down for you. Lampley was like .....oh, after he realized he wasn't hitting him ::

Arm punches don't count when your head gets snapped back

How the hell was Taylor "unresponsive"? You act like he was getting hit as much as pavlik in the second :dunno: He had his hands up, but oh yeah.....that didn't count because he was on cruise control :notallthere: He got hit twice, big deal. Fact is, smoger SMOTHERED him and didn't let him do anything, that was bullshit.

 

Beat the count, EXACTLY

 

He hit Taylor clean with two right hands, a left hook, two uppercuts....

What I meant was that Taylor was actually hitting Pavlik sometimes with his forearms, not cleanly. My mistake on saying "arm punches."

You need to watch it again....then again....then again.

Taylor was unresponsive. He was frozen in that pose, arms up, slouched over, looking AWAY from Pavlik.....and he slumped to the canvas ON HIS OWN as Smoger came in to wave it off.

You wishing it was otherwise doesn't make it true. And your recollection from Saturday can be deceiving. Watch it closely.

Pavlik was in control of himself and Taylor wasn't.

It's absolutely evident.

The way you're depicting it - Taylor only got hit twice total the whole round, was holding his arms up and actively parrying and ducking and dodging like Mayweather - then Smoger came in and threw himself all over Taylor and held his arms down and tripped him while Jermain was trying to punch and screaming "let me at 'im!" ::::

Happy wishing and trolling, though. opcorn:

 

::::

 

It wasn't even worthy of a fucking 8 count!!, had Taylor lifted that 'misplaced burden' off his shoulders like the deciple of Zues, and began stumbling around shreiking "WTF!?" like he didn't know what hit him then yeah, that'd be worth an 8 count I suppose and we could have also properly analyzed his figure and movements to gauge any disorientation or limpness, but since he had the presence of mind to stay down in disbelief while Smoger shook his booty all over his face, that clearly suggests that he was calm, that he new that this bizzare circumstance would be reviewed and investigated later by the appropriate sanctioning bodies, and have that unjust decision overturned, and Smoger / Top Rank, thoroughly investigated.

 

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

:bears:

 

While Pavlik might be the best 160 lber, it's a whole different world at 168. It's better at the top and the prospects are better. And while he is a huge puncher at 160, you never can tell what will happen to a guy's power when he moves up a weight class.

Sure, I'd expect him to do very well at super mid and I'd expect him to continue to have huge power, but there are too many exceptions to think it's a sure thing.

 

:::: just watch the fight again...

Pavlik ran across the ring..jumps on the ropes put his hands up...and Taylor was still down..looking at the canvas..not trying to get up, not complaining to Smoger........about 30 seconds later they show Taylor in his corner..still looking at teh canvas pretty much out of it...

 

Taylor NAILS Pavlik with an overhand right, then throws a double left jab, right hook, left hook, right hook, left hook,right hook, another DEVESTATING right hook, Pavlik buckles, throws another short left hook, another right hook, buckles again, HUGE right hook again, quick left, BIG right hook, short left, Pavlik backs up, Taylor throws a SNAPPING jab, BIG BOMB right hook, then leftercut HUGE, Pavlik head is up PRONE with no defense.....grabs Jermains left arm in DESPERATION BARELY standing up trying to keep balance like a one legged pogostick, ANOTHER right hand, Pavlik is on his knees falling forward and tries to suck his cock.

You need to watch it again because after all that, NOT ONE PUNCH was thrown by Pavlik, where was Mr. UFC then :dunno: