Where Does Bernard Hopkins rank among the greatest fighters ever?

Sorry, I have Hopkins vs Eastman, Joppy, Hakkar and Allen all lined up, I will try to get Mr Calzaghe a slot for 5pm Thursday, will that do??

 

Lacy, you know the guy who just lost to some 20-20 fighter and was targeted by Nick Diaz, the MMA fighter and boxing novice.

 

Anyone that Hopkins lost to is welcome in this thread. Watch your step or I'll start dropping Jones Jr into it along with Taylor and that bum he lost on his debut to. :warning:

 

Yeah, everyone wanted a piece of poor Jeff after Joe. Sloppy Joe? More like Sloppy 2nds.

 

You're beginning to sound a bit like your beloved Hegman.

 

Speak sense.

 

serious question. you were picking hopkins to win that bout?

 

hakkar would have bashed McIntyre to bits. one sided beating there

 

Of course I did, just like anyone with any sense did. Ditto with Barrera against Hamed, the results of those fights couldn't have been more obvious.

I admit I didn't bet on Hopkins, but the only reason for that is I had just moved to London at the time and had no spare cash and no internet at home.

Truth be told I was probably even more sure that Hopkins would beat Tito than Barrera against Hamed.

 

The simple reality with Hopkins is that a mere 10 years ago, he could not have achieved as a younger man what he is currently achieving as an older one. The fighters around him, specifically due north of 160, were too good. Hopkins had to wait, make the correct chemical propitiations and then move in. He is forgiven for all his sins as he keeps the home fires burning. God Bless America etc etc etc. If waiting for the better fighters to leave, quit, move on is the litmus test for greatness then so be it. People are talking about Hopkins having "fought everyone". He could have had Jones at 175, or Michelczweski, or Ottke, or Calzaghe before he did. There has been no attempt to fight Tavoris Cloud, or beat a Cruiserweight.

Personally, pfp, and perhaps with only the failed steroid test to deny him, I have James Toney WAY out in front of Hopkins. The sight of a relatively small Toney, with no holding, just skills, doing his utmost to defuse guys like Ruiz, Peter, Jirov even.....makes Hopkins tripping the light fantastic for 12 rounds with Froch-victim Pascal look pretty insignificant.

 

I did. Buddy Rydell did. Lots of people with their heads screwed on did. Joppy was also a 3-1 fave over Tito. Judah was a fave over Tszyu.:laugh11: There are lots of people out there that don't know boxing, and Hopkins has most of them fooled with his BS.

 

im sure all you chaps picking hopkins were expecting him to dominate as he did as well.

 

Buddy had him down for a 9th round stoppage. I had him down for an 11th round stoppage. :dunno:

 

I didn't expect it to be THAT 1 sided, but yeah, pretty much.

Given the way the smaller, more frightened and less durable Oscar schooled Trinidad, there was no reason to think Hopkins wouldn't school him in more dominant fashion.

Especially if you looked at the style of the 2 fighters and the way in which Hopkins can just smother a guy and shut him down and grind the shit out of him, and quite how basic/limited Trinidad is.

 

yeh....wins against Nunn and McCallum already take a massive shit on Hops entire middleweight "reign"

 

I picked Hopkins, I'm pretty sure that was one of the results that got me the SecondsOut predictions title. I couldn't believe how overrated Tito was

 

Hopkins sheer longevity means that he ranks very highly, but his MW reign continues to get a pass despite being almost completely mediocre and his defeats to Calzaghe and Taylor cannot continue to be shoved to one side as if they never happened. People adding Roy his list of victims also need to lay off the pop :nono:

MTF

 

So should have Hopkins, who flat out turned tail and ran after Calzaghe had agreed to terms in 2003. Another conveniently 'forgotten' Hopkins fact.

MTF

 

Toney's most significant fights:


Tiberi
McCallum X2
Williams
Barkley
Reggie Johnson
Doug DeWitt
Jones Jr
Griffin
Jirov
Ruiz
Rahman
Peter X2
Holyfield
Guinn..

.....:: Toney is way out in front of this fucking Hopkins.

 

Neil seems to think it's impossible that anyone picked Hopkins ::

 

Yep. Bottom line is that US boxing needs a figurehead right now, and Hopkins ticks all the boxes. People want to think we are looking at a living legend, when in fact he's just a product of a piss weak era, both overall, and at 175 in particular.

 

Let's just say that a LOT more people seem to have predicted Hopkins would win that fight now that the fight has actually happened. Personally, I have never seen a fight where the "educated" boxing fans were so sure of a result... after the fact.

 

Why, Lacy-Calzaghe, my dear Watson.

 

Same idea, much lesser scale. I don't have official numbers or predictions kept or anything but from what I took in from magazines and forums there were more people picking Tito than Lacy and many more people who picked Tito and now act as if they knew Hopkins was a vastly superior fighter the entire time leading up to the match.

But definitely - same idea.

 

Tito was a hype monster. There were respected journalists coming onto secondsout claiming that the left hook that Tito dropped Joppy with would have dropped ANY 160lb champion of ANY era. Thats how bad it was.

 

I didn't even watch Calzaghe-Lacy, I hadn't been on the boards for a while and was so sure of a Calzaghe win I thought people were just gonna say the same shit when he won easily, how Lacy was a bum etc. I was genuinely shocked people not only saw it as a competitive fight but that Lacy was a big favourite.

 

And that's probably the difference right there - no matter how underrated Calzaghe was or whatever, Lacy didn't have the same level of hype that Tito received prior to these matches.

 

Why are all the Brits getting upset about Hopkins? Sorry, but the fact is Hopkins will go down in history as a greater fighter than Calzaghe. It's just the truth.

 

You forgot Nunn.

But weren't you railing on steroids earlier? You slam Hopkins who has never tested positive yet prop up Toney who has. Hmmmm..

I love a good dose of hypocrisy as much as the next guy but......

And by the way, don't wins count a little. Toney was like 9-5-2 (2NC) in the significant fights you listed.

 

The point is that the weight is not something he is alien to, that was at one time a fighting weight for him. The idea of Hopkins moving up to light heavy was something that was repeatedly discussed throughout his MW reign and not something that seemed unrealistic. The idea of Pacquiao fighting at 147 when he was at 126 was outlandish. Remember, he looked outgunned at 130 against Morales in their first meeting.

Hopkins was drained and he was also old. I thought he won both of those fights, but Taylor is a guy who would give an old Hopkins trouble 100% of the time because of the stylistic problem he poses for a guy like Hopkins. As for his moving up to 175 instead of 168, that's kind of a stupid point of contention. We don't really know what his motivation there is, but again, 175 is not an unrealistic or ridiculous weight class for him. My guess is that he saw Tarver as a mark, and further he tends to look down on the weight classes outside of the original 8. Remember that he made noise about fighting at heavy, but never said anything about cruiser that I can remember.

When I say Hopkins doesn't fight like he's on EPO, I mean that he cannot fight 3 minutes of any round, let alone every round. Nor does he fight aggressively. Please don't make me have to explain shit like this.

Wlad has been busted using steroids before and his physique looks like that of a steroid abuser's. I would venture that a lot of guys at heavy are on something.

Really? He's become more of a slick, quick and aggressive puncher? I hadn't noticed. Hopkins relies heavily on his technique at his age, and that is visible in his fights. Have steroids helped improve that?

Yes, Marciano and Hopkins are really comparable stylewise, nutrition wise, training wise, damagewise, and anything-else-you-can-imaginewise. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

I'm not making a virtue out of that, you blithering fucktard. I'm pointing out that it is why Pacquiao is held in greater suspicion than Hopkins. You correctly point out that that hasn't happened with Hopkins, and my point is that until it has and he reacts in the same way, nobody is going to talk about him the way they talk about Pacquiao. Seriously, make your brain work and quit wasting everyone's time with this garbage.

cool story bro