Where does Hopkins rank P4P now?

Archie Moore just MIGHT have Something to Say about that...



REED

 

dsimon writes:

The church of Roy will, like a group of vexed scientologists, descend upon anyone who suggests it, but there is legitimate reason to put Hops ahead of Jones, performance wise, when one considers the entire span of both careers.

 

Hopkins is the fucking man. NO matter what some of you negative nancies say, that did not look like a 42 year old fighter in there.

He was nimble on his feet, still had pretty quick hands, and good timing and reactions. He is a far cry from the likes of recent holyfield.

I thought if he could even perform as well as the tarver fight, he'd batter winky, and indeed he did. The only reason I didn't bet on hops is because he IS 42, and I thought it was too much of a risk. There was a chance he could have looked 10 years older than when he beat "taver".

Sure he didn't throw 100 punches per round, did a lot of mauling etc, but that's bernard hopkins, not hopkins looking old.

 

Yeah, most people would say that....but Archie Moore wasn't beating world class, elite P4P kind's of fighters in his 40's. Archie was a freak of nature himself, no doubt...but Hopkins is something altogether different again. Historians will hate it, because its a big part of what made Moore one of the greatest fighters of all-time and to have that place challenged by a contemporary fighter? Uh oh.

 

Wasn't Moore 42 when he Nearly BEAT Rocky Marciano???:dunno:

REED Loooooooooooves Winky,but REED Thinks Nearly Beating Marciano is BETTER than Beating Wright,Don't U???


REED:dunno:

 

Nearly beating Marciano? He got bludgeoned half to death and had a single moment of glory, in a relatively short fight. And you know what? Memories and acomplishments come from wins. Too often, do I see fighters being lauded and having their reputations strengthened, from a loss.

To me, this is just not right. Boxing is about winning, not being brave and losing.

 

Didn't they Go like 10-12 Rounds???...


REED:dunno:

 

dsimon writes:

If memory serves correct Moore knocked Marciano down but was KO'ed in the last third of the fight. Moore was an incredible fighter.

 

Went five, as far as I remember.Maybe im thinking of something else though. I remember the fight well...maybe not the length of it. :dunno:

 

dsimon writes:

My dad saw the fight::. He said that Moore looked great for a while... up until the point where he angered Marciano with the knockdown. Then it became apparent very fast that Moore couldn't hurt Marciano and that is when the battering commenced.

 

I must be confusing it with the Patterson fight in terms of rounds. I remember he dropped Marciano in a corner and then got slaughtered. He spent more time on the canvas than he did on his feet. It wasn't really competetive, IMO.

Still, even though there are debates about how old Moore really was at points in his career, he was "officially" under the age of 40 at the time of that fight. Moore didn't do a great deal after the four oh.

 

I would say Bernard has surpassed Roy in greatness terms even though I still think RJ would have beaten him at almost any point...He may have lost their first fight in dull but decisive fashion but he also dominated both guys who KTFO RJ, and his winning resume IMO has surpassed RJs at this point..

 

Agreed.I'm still in awe at the way he handled Winky Wright,when most fighters had so much trouble with him but Hopkins figured him out and did what he had too do.

 

dsimon writes:

Great as he was Moore had no business fighting heavy weight.

 

Without checking boxrec...I'm pretty sure it went 9 rounds and Moorer gave Marciano HELL before being knocked out. Nevertheless your point about Hopkins' in his 40s is valid.

 

:: Nine rounds is right, but he took a fucking shellacking. Hell? GTFOH.

 

If Roy Hadn't suffered back to back KO losses the matter wouldn't be in doubt, Roy would be the greater fighter. But KO losses, even at the end of a career (because Bernard is at the end of his also) has to be taken into consideration....in a Roy vs Bernard all time debate.

I tell you what though...comparing Bernard's greatness with Roy's is merely a RED HERRING thrown in from the "Roy haters".

Why?

Because it's no shame to be not-as-great as Hopkins because IMO, Bernard has proven to be greater than Hagler, Monzon, Hearns and many other well respected fighters.

It may sound like boxing blasphemy, because Hopkins is a contemporary fighter and the aforementions are great names of yesteryear, but objectively...when you consider DOMINANCE, longevity, championship reign, some of the specific victories he's had and adding the 175lb title to his impressive Middleweight tally as well as the fact he's never been stopped...you have to put aside the bias and give the man his dues...

 

Yes, and also you have to consider his mauling, grinding style compared to Hagler's (for example) more crowd pleasing style, is going to turn some people off.

I like hopkins and rate him very highly, I have done ever since I first saw him.

I honestly thought the first time I saw him fight, that he was one of the best middleweights ever. 6'1, strong, crafty, clever, skillful, quicker than people give him credit for, tough as fuck, and still going strong at 42 :bears:

 

As far as career accomplishments goes and status with other boxers all time, hes definately up there. But as PVP at the moment, there are many others that are more deserving atm.

 

The point is that as they are contemporaries, its a debate which has been ongoing since, say, 2002, where RJ would have been a fairly clear choice IMO...that situation has changed, anyone think RJ can pick a few still very good/elite fighters whose style he matches up pretty well with, as Hopkins has of late?...

 

If I may get nitpicky...not the first time..won't be the last...

Do you remember which fight you first saw Hopkins fight that made you rate him highly?

For mE, and I would say most (all?) boxing fans, Hopkins has been a fighter who has taken a while to appreciate. His style has never been exciting or flashy and it's only been the fact that he keeps on winning and winning that has created his fan base.

 

dsimon writes:

Moore was a journeyman because people avoided him. If the division had not been so weak in Marciano's time I doubt he would have fought Moore.