Which champions were virtually talentless?

No need to remind me. I´m well aware of your shortcomings when properly trying to evaluate talent. :kick:

 

Such as? You know me El, I'm never wrong :)

If you actually felt Abraham was an elite fighter then you need to learn more about the sport, a boxer who doesn't throw punches isn't the best guy to back

 

El was hyping AA for years. And with all due respect to MWS and yourself, I've been saying he sucks for longer than anyone. :nono:

 

Eric Aiken
Gavin Rees

 

This has to be the winner.

 

There is a difference between being elite and talentless. There are at least a 100 guys in the last 10 years that have been world champions that are worse.

In the last 10 years alone Maselino Masoe, Sebastian Zbik, Sebastian Sylvester, Felix Sturm, William Joppy, Hassan N´Jikam, and Javier Castillejo have held a middleweight title. That´s seven guys right there that are worse than Abraham, and middleweight has been a fairly stable weight division over the last few years.

 

Prime Joppy dominates Arthur Abraham.

 

Man, I'm not talking belt holders, if so why not include Jason Matthews and the like. I'm going by who guys consider THE champ. After Hopkins-Pavlik, AA was considered the top guy at 160, and I'm saying he is one of the worst fighters who has ever held that position.

 

Abraham was never considered the top guy at 160, though. Pavlik's loss came nearly 10 lb. above his most effective fighting weight. It had no effect on his standing as MW, nor did Abraham's rematch with over Miranda, which took place at SMW or thereabout.

 

vito antuofermo

 

I guess it depends on what you consider talent. Not everybody could have reproduced what Santana did. ::

 

True... although Juan Coggi came pretty close.

 

Good point, still Pavlik and Abraham were considered the number 1 and 2 at 160, and after Hopkins-Pavlik there's no denying Kellys stock dropped big time, even though the fight took place at 175. What's more, Pavlik seemed reluctant to fight AA which gave many people a case for putting AA at #1. Either way he was considered by many to be a Champ rather than a mere beltholder like Jason Matthews

 

This is fucking priceless.

Prime Joppy couldn't dominate a shot Mrs Joppy.

 

Joppy was much better at boxing.

 

Hugo Corro was worse. Hacine Cherifi was worse.

 

Joppy was dropped by Howard Eastman.

 

And Eastman gave AA a close, tough fight five years later.

 

Oh well we better keep an eye on that Beibut Shumenov chap then too.:Thumbs:

 

Even if that was true, it would render moot the moment Abraham joined the Super Six fray, while Pavlik still reigned as MW champ.

 

Michael Grant has talent. He shouldn't be mentioned here.

 

Edwin Valero was the biggest bum as a title claimant I have seen since Elisha Obed.

 

AgREED. The guy was big, loose and could hit a bit. Wins over Savarese, Golota, Izon, mean he obviously had some small talent. He could have been better if he had more poise and an amateur career which went beyond 1 or 2 fights. The poise might have even come with just some more experience- I think he was rushed a bit into the fight with Lewis.

 

Lennox

 

Outside the ring the chap probably couldn't scratch himself. Inside the ring........:nono:

 

:notallthere:

 

Edwin Valero died young, in prison cell. He is a legend. A LEGEND.

 

Boxing and the world in general are better off without that piece of trash.

The prison guards probably murdered the bum.

He couldn't fight, and he couldn't take care of a woman.

 

I was being sarcastic Karl.

Valero was a POS.

I believe that Valero was killed as he had become an embarassment to the regime.

 

::