Whitaker or Floyd?

He would have been a much better win than Baldomir at the time Floyd fought the molester.

 

i agree. no one disputes that. mayweather jr whipped judah and people said he wasnt the real champ since he didnt face baldomir. i was never in favor of that shitty matchup. baldomir isnt even among the top 20 wins of his career. but you got cretins here claiming margarito would be a top 5 victory for him.

 

Marg would have been a better win than Mosley imo. Mosley had looked pretty poor for the last few years, and the consensus was that he was washed up. Ke kinda resurrected his career against marg, but it was pretty much a one and done thing

 

Poor little Neil, after all these years watching boxing, your degenerated brain still hasn't figured out that it isnt algebra

 

it wasnt like mosley margarito was some narrow decision. he beat the DOG SHIT out of margarito. the greatest performance of his entire career.

 

hilarious people have their heads in the sand when it comes to marg's gloves just so they can pretend mosley had a final big win.

 

And?

It was indeed a great performance by mosley, but he looked poor the fights before and after. No wonder that pbf, who showed no inclinaison to fight marg, jumped on the occasion. But unfortunately, you dont get victory by proxy in boxing

 

what do you mean? are you suggesting margarito would not have been a top 5 victory for mayweather jr ?

 

if he'd faced and beaten him before mosley did? maybe. because of his size, "heavy hands" and awkward style, he was viewed as a serious threat, including to PBF.

 

While this is true, nobody has ever claimed that PBF was the best welterweight ever

 

Robinson is the consensus 147 GOAT, and he's top 3-4 all time at middle.

I have Floyd as the 130 GOAT. His only real competition for the GOAT in that division is Arguello.

But he isn't top 5 all time in any other division.

Robinson is at very top of the two most prestigious non-heavyweight divisions in history.

Below heavy, the welterweight champion and the middleweight champion are the titles that have always held the most weight.

Ray is greater than Floyd, and I don't see it as close. I don't think Floyd is close to EITHER Sugar in greatness.

He's close to Whitaker, which is why this thread can be debated.

Robinson is a bridge too far.

 

In terms of what he did at 130, Floyd has a lot of competition.

 

I see Whitaker, Jones, and Floyd as basically all the same tier of greatness. Who was the best out of the three? Everyone will have their own opinions (obviously i say Roy), but the three of them all belong to the same category of greatness. Top 20 all time guys.

I think Robinson, Leonard, and Duran are a tier above those three in greatness.

 

This isn't the only way to find out the GOAT, though. Henry Armstrong only ranks among the best at welterweight too and even there his record isn't the strongest one (albeit very good). His visits to other divisions were short.

What made him special was the way he roared through several divisions. That's the main argument for Floyd too. He peaked at super-featherweight but took over several other classes as well. How does that compare to dominating one or two classes for longer time, I'm not sure

 

While I mostly agree with your take, there are still 2 huge knocks on Floyd .

1) he did not really clean up any division.

2) at the higher weights, he never fought (ot even seemed interested in fighting) the big natural ww or jmw. So how much credit can you give him for getting through a lot of divisions when his wins at 147 and 154 were all against (usually cherry picked) guys who's best weight were in lower divisions??

The notable exception is of course Canelo, but even then, he only agreed to a catchweight which mean Alvarez had to cut a lot of weight. This puts an asterisk next to his win imo (with a second one for Canelo being green).

 

His fight with Roger Mayweather. Freddie Pendleton made him do a deep knee bend. He hade it a myth by getting hit on his 'glass jaw' about every 24 rounds.

 

Would Floyd beat LaMotta, especially giving up 13 or more pounds? Fritzie Zivic would give him hell and probably beat him; Robinson and Conn and Armstrong said he was the smartest that they fought.
Floyd fought a lot of HoF fighters for the same reason he fought a lot of world champions. Boxing has become a participation trophy sport where everybody gets to win a world title because there are 46 of them available in each of the 40 weight classes, you are allowed to weigh whatever you want when you get in the ring to defend the "world" championship of a specific weight class, and, because they have to elect a specified number of people to the hall every year, everybody has a shot at the HoF.
There is nothing to suggest that guys like Ortiz, Berto, Guerrero, Castillo were better fighters than Izzy Jannazzo.. That guy was often in the top 10 when there was only 1 top ten in each class. Now, there are at least 4 top tens in each division and they only recognize each others top fighters if you pay a fee.

 

And then proved it when he went the distance with Tito while being well past his best, much smaller and having a broken jaw.

 

Whitaker had a good chin but the whole surviving trinidad argument is odd.

Every time Trinidad had him cornered he'd just fall down and Benji Estevez would let him get out of trouble

He survived on guile and craftiness more than durability or punch resistance

 

De La Hoya is slow?

 

McGirt wasn't exactly Ben Tackie.

 

I need you to explain why Whitaker dominated Chavez, yet Floyd needed two tries to get it right against Chavez's sparring partner.

 

What would've happened if Mayweather Jr fought Castillo at welterweight

And didn't have an injured rotator cuff

 

So styles make fights but Mayweather is going to "destroy" somebody who employs a similar style but is also a much superior fighter? If you think Floyd would outpoint him fine. I disagree but that's some ridiculous hyperbole.

 

castillo gave mayweather jr problems because he was heavier and had a good size advantage by cutting weight better at 135lbs. if he had fought the welterweight version of mayweather who was a solid 150lbs in the ring he would have got fucked up. not to mention mayweather jr had an injured arm in that first castillo fight.