Who is "greater"... Floyd or PAC?

Barrera and Morales were not in their primes

Cotto, who never mind being obscenely overvalued on this forum, was yet another catchweight casualty

how in god's name do Hatton and Cotto get unequivocally called "elite" while Corrales and Castillo do not?

 

Pacquiao accomplished a bit more as a whole I think.

But there's no doubt Floyd is the better fighter.

 

Lopez ducked Carbajal

 

marcellus johnson wouldve whipped lopez

 

How was Barrera not in his prime? He was on a great run since the win over Naz and was considered the top guy in the division at the time.

 

Floyd

this thread should have a (non-anonymous) poll

 

what's Floyds best win of the past 7-8 years?
had he retired when he was 31 his accomplishments would be the same

 

Floyd is the best jr lightweight of all time imo.

Very few lightweights or 140 lbers in the history beat him. Can think of very few.

He loses to elite ATG welterweights like Leonard and Hearns, but he would give even those guys a fight. He beat all the best welterweights of his era, while simultaneously holding the super middleweight championship. Came in most welterweight and super middle bouts at 148-150, whereas most of his opponents came in 160+. Dominated the sport for 19 years and counting.

Pac lost to Erik Morales at 130, struggled with and lost to/got KTFO by JMM, and lost to Floyd. He was great at 122-130, but even there, he didn't dominate the way Floyd has.

 

Pacquiao

What's Pac's best win of the past 7-8 years? Can't say Floyd, since he lost to him

 

Manny.

To equal Manny's record of titles in 8 divisions Floyd would still have to win titles at 160, 168 and 175 or he could skip one of those divisions and pick up a title at cruiserweight since Manny didn't win a title at 126.

And along the way would have to beat the better guys (not scrubs with titles) in each division like GGG, Froch, Ward and Pascal, Kovalev and/or Hopkins. That's what Pac did in his fights with Ledwaba, Morales, Marquez and Barrera.

That's not including the Cotto, Bradley and Hatton fights.

 

Pacquaio is not a good win for Floyd at all

 

Of course they were. Barrera was very much prime (I don't see how that's arguable, he was only 29, only 2 years removed from battering Hamed, on an awesome run, considered one of the best P4P fighters in the world), and Morales was on the tail end of his prime, just like Cotto was on the tail end of his prime when Floyd beat him.

Hatton and Cotto were entry level elite fighters, I think they are both better than Chico and Castillo who I've always considered borderline elite fighters. And Chico is one of my favourite punchers of all time, he was just too limited to be a true elite fighter. I think Hatton and Cotto are better.

 

To equal Manny, he'd have had to win a paper title in his first division (never fought Lopez) and then get KO'd in his 2nd defense (Singsurat), then quit in a fight in his next division (Sanchez), struggle to a draw in the division after that (and then lose to & get KTFO by the same guy later), get outboxed in the division after that, win a paper title in the next division, and lose to Manny in his last division. I probably missed some there, but that's a good overview

 

\

Floyloadedgloves!

 

Manny's win over MAB was extraordinary. Marco was top 5 at best on most pound-for-pound lists at the time and Pac destroyed him. And he did so moving up in weight and being the underdog. It equals Floyd's win over Corrales, arguably even surpasses it.

Morales beat Pac in the first fight. But it was a close, 7-5 win. It took something out of him, but he was not far removed from his prime and was still good in the rematch where Manny stopped him.

Pac is 2-1-1 with JMM.

I'm not a big fan of catchweight fights so I'm not as big on the DLH, Cotto and Margarito wins as some understandably are. But still... you have to admit that the way he beat them was incredible. I'm rereading the round-by-round and the after-fight threads of those bouts and how everyone reacted as they happened says everything. We were all in awe.

His dismantling of Hatton was spectacular. Better than Floyd's.

I like how he has a lot of names on his resume that don't really get noticed a lot anymore. Ledwaba, Julio, Larios, Clottey, Bradley, etc... They're average guys, really. But still arguably better than Floyd's own collection of average foes.

Pac has exceeded expectations so many times. I think that's one of the things so great about him.

Floyd has a good resume, but to reiterate, I think Manny arguably accomplished a bit more overall.

 

Yeah, but he got losses

- FloydIdiots

 

I think you guys are forgetting the very suspect list of opponents MAB was facing heading into that defense against Pacquaio ... Barrera had been fighting since he was 15 ... He'd had to reinvent himself in order to prolong his career... Granted I think Manny beats him anyway but I don't think he was in his prime at all... Morales had been in a million wars and had been recently humiliated by the legendary Zahir Raheem ... I don't believe he was in his prime either...

I believe Castillo was every bit as good as Hatton or Cotto (both of whom Floyd comprehensively beat) ... I don't see a significant difference there ... Corrales I can accept a slight downgrade but he was utterly embarrassed ... One of the most one-sided high profile fights ever

 

My point is that this isn't in any way a wipeout in either guy's favor... The Floyd nuthuggers are acting like Pacquaio was the same guy at 112 that he was in the 120s ... The Pac nuthuggers are acting like Floyd was fighting victor Ortiz level comp regularly before 2007

 

I've always said it wasn't until after he fought Gatti that Floyd's resume goes to crap. I don't hold it against him that he didn't fight Tszyu, Casamayor or Freitas. They were Showtime fighters.

As far as Morales goes, you're talking about Pac's rematch when Morales lost to Raheem.

Not sure what you mean by suspect list of defenses for MAB...mind you I thought Morales won their second fight and he won their first but he'd beaten Hamed and beat the brakes off Sanchez and Kevin Kelley.

 

Good post, I actually agree with this word for word :bears:

 

Losses are a part of boxing loaded, especially if you fight regularly and fight good comp that are largely prime.

Robinson is largely regarded as P4P #1 all time, yet he has 19 losses. You could just as easily pick his resumé apart and say he got beat by basic arse LaMotta in his prime, then lost another 18 times, and actually Floyd TBE because undefeated yo!

You think Ali is top 5 P4P right? He has 5 losses compared to Pacquiao's 6, and needed to cheat to beat Cooper, in his prime, and should really have more losses to Young and Norton, while Pacquiao should have less because of the dive and the Bradley robbery, etc etc.

As I said, pretty much every ATG in history has a handful of losses, with only 3 being notoriously undefeated, and one of them is Calzaghe ::

I can understand people thinking Floyd is better and ranking him higher based on that, but Pacquiao's resumé is incredible.

 

What utter codswallop with regards to MAB. He was considered the main man at feather and was in the best form of his career. I know for a fact that Manny was a huge underdog in that one as I was one of the few people on SO who picked him to win (and me and Mex were having a big back and forth at the time). The reason he was the underdog was because Barrera was the bigger guy and in the middle of a shit hot streak where he and Morales asserted something of an Old Firm dominance in the featherweight division.

 

Absolutely correct. We had vicious arguments about whether Manny would beat Morales and Barrera, I thought he'd get destroyed.

If I recall, Pacquiao was about a 4 to 1 underdog against MAB, and almost all of us thought he was too small and too wild, apart from you basically ;)

MAB was considered the man at 126 at that time, top 5 P4P, and was basically on the best streak of his entire career.

 

That fight made me a Pacquiao believer, yet I was still loyal to my boy Erik and picked him to beat Pacquiao in the first and second fights.

I'm probably the biggest Morales fan on this board, but I gave credit where it was due. Morales looked good in the Pacquiao rematch, started off looking just as good as the first fght, the difference was Manny, he was beastly.

 

To be precise, he lost to/got KTFO by a guy who won 0 seconds of his fight with Floyd, and outboxed by another guy who would've undergone the same fate had he and Floyd ever fought

If:

Fighter A loses to Fighters B and C

Fighter Y totally owns Fighters B and C

and then on top of that

Fighter Y totally owns Fighter A

then Fighter Y is generally going to be considered the greater fighter by rational non-idiots who aren't consumed by irrational scorned-woman level hatred

 

BULLSHIT holmes. Morales looked about 100 years old in his fight with Zahir Raheem. He looked slow as fuck and flat out tired from the opening bell.

 

Yeah, except once again, Pacquiao lost to guys who would or did get whooped easily by Floyd.

Also, everyone seems to be forgetting, Pacquiao also lost to Floyd

 

MAB was definitely in his prime when he fought Pac, though. Can't take credit away from him for that. An ass-whipping for the ages. Barrera looked good against Morales right before Morales beat Pacquiao.

 

Begrudgingly I'll say Floyd probably ranks a little higher all-time.