Why isn't there a good American heavyweight at the moment?

Well, there have been Europeans competing and winning titles from junior welterweight and above and while there haven't been that many below that, there are examples with guys like Sidorenko and Kirilov.

I can agree that most American athletes don't go into boxing, but that isn't a new development in the last decade (though they may have certainly declined in that period), and doesn't really address the question of why there's been growing number of international athletes in other sports (not just boxing).

Just looking at the NBA, despite the overwhelming number of American athletes playing the sport, the last three MVP's have come from Canada and Germany, All-Stars have come from countries like Serbia, Russia and Turkey, and #1 overall draft picks have come from China, Australia and Italy.

 

I wasn't forgetting (or the fact that Gastineau's opponent in his pro debut took a dive).

I was merely pointing out something those who saw that fight probably alrelady know, that the skill and ability on display that night has no parrallel in today's modern era of heavyweights.

 

The NBA MVP Award is Basically a POPULARITY Contest btwn Hoop Writers...& There's NO SET Criteria for that Designation...

The FACT is, Kobe Bryant has Been THE BEST Player N the NBA for MORE than 3 Years, yet he DOESN'T have even ONE MVP Award...

Fuuuurthermore, Last Years MVP Got EMBARRASSED N the 1st Round of the Playoffs by an 8th Seed...

REED Sees the Point U're Trying to Make, but Pointing to the NBA MVP Award ISN'T Bolstering your Case....

As for International # 1 Draft Picks, David Stern's Self IMPOSED Age Limit is a MUCH Responsible as Anything...


REED

 

Irrespective, Michael Grant is probably the "Athlete-Turned-Fighter" Acid Test for any future such guys. He was carefully managed, yes, but parlayed good athleticism with a lot of balls and desire.

Mentally, he didn't have it on the big night, but he isn't the first title contender to choke on the night, and more seasoned pros have been known to do far less than he did.

As Frank Maloney noted after the Golota fight, "Lennox Lewis Will Have To Nail HIm To the Canvas"- an allusion to Grants balls and desire to win.

Still....Grant ultimately failed....

 

The POINT is, Take an Athlete N his FORMATIVE Sporting Years & Train him N Boxing...

Michael Grant Tried Virtually EVERY OTHER Sport 1st, then Went to Boxing as a LAST Resort...He was College Aged or So, when he 1st Stepped N 2 a Boxing Ring...

Like REED Said Earlier, Athletes like LeBron James or Ray Lewis Could CONCEIVABLY B Dominant Heavy's if they had @ Least DABBLED N Boxing During their FORMATIVE Sporting Years...

Obviously, it's MUCH Toooooooo LATE @ this Stage for Either of them to Become Boxers....

REED

 

Even if you say it's a popularity contest, it doesn't get around the fact that Nash and Nowitki have been mainstays in the "conversation" for the award (I never thought Nash deserved it, thought Nowitzki deserved it Nash's second year and thought Bryant or James deserved it last year).

Regardless, they're both among the very elite.

I also don't think you were being selective by avoiding the all-stars and only addressing MVP and #1 draft picks (and the year Bogut was the #1 overall - as well as college POTY - there were high school players in the draft).

 

As you said yourself, these guys don't have the mental application for the fight game. And, the fight game is 90% mental. You have to be happy to get smacked in the face to be a fighter. If you aren't....then you are not a fighter, and your athelticism doesn't count for jack.

 

Plus they only play one sport in Europe, Boxing,.. and maybe soccer.

 

The excuse of American in "other sports" is a manufactured one, designed to alleviate the stress caused by the loss of their coveted heavyweight championship. Its really the post-modern equivalent of a racist white riot, the mental knee-jerk reaction to the unexpected and irrecoverable loss of a sacred covenant. They can't understand how they lost it, so they make excuses and look for sanctuary in the "other sports" excuse.

 

But NOBODY Starts Off Being "Happy" about Getting SMACKED N the Face...

It's LEARNED Behavior...

Which Takes Us BACK to REED's Point about Elite American Athletes Pursuing Boxing During their FORMATIVE Sporting Years...

THAT's the Problem...


REED

 

So....what was so different about the fifties and sixties? As the money in boxing gets better, fewer people want to do it? That makes no sense. I don't think its just learned behaviour, I think some guys are just born fighters. Sure, you can condition a man to do almost anything, right up to the point of brainwashing, so the question stands: what made earlier generations of American men choose boxing over other sports. It can't have been the money or the glamour per se, because for many years the money was shit and the glam was non existant. In fact, at one point, boxing was openly referred to as the "so-called sport of professional boxing".

 

There's Almost ALWAYS Been International Players N the "Conversation", so to Speak...

15-20-25 Years Ago, Guys like Drazen Petrovic & Arvidas Sabonis were Considered Amongst THE ELITE Basketball Players on the Planet...That's NATHAN New:nono: ...

The Game has GROWN by Leaps & Bounds but UNDENIABLY, the VAST MAJORITY of Elite Players R STILL American...@ NO Point has THE BEST Player N the League Been NON-American...& REED Doubts if that will Change N Our Lifetime...

The MEDIA Gave Nash 2 MVP's while IGNORING how the Mavs (his Former Team) FLOURISHED N his Absence...Dirk Got the Award AFTER MEEKLY Bowing Out of the Playoffs...All the While, an AMERICAN was CLEARLY the Best Player N the League...TRUELY "The Most Valuable Player" N the League...

The Fact that Bogut & Yao were # 1 is More of a COINCIDENCE than a Trend...


REED

 

N the 50's & 60's, Sports like Basketball & Football DIDN'T Pay Nearly as Much as they Do Now...Football & Basketball Players from that Era Had REGULAR JOBS During the Off Season...

From Day One, Boxing has ALWAYS Been a POOR MAN's Sport...& Since Day One, Only ELITE Level Fighters have Garnered Financial Security...

1nce Formerly Poor Americans had OPTIONS to Become Doctors, Lawyers, etc., & 1nce Football & Basketball Salaries Made it FEASIBLE for a Player to B SECURE for the Rest of his Life, the Level of Boxers DECLINED...

& U're WRONG when U Say the "Glam was Non Existent" N Boxing...Back N the Day, Boxing was MUCH MORE Popular than Basketball or Football...Hell, the Super Bowl AND NBA Finals were SQUEEZED Into Network Schedules Back then...If REED's Not Mistaken, the End of Super Bowl I was PREEMPTED by the Start of "The Sound of Music"...

But All the While, Boxing & Baseball Reigned SUPREME...


REED

 

Boxing has always "suffered" from fall off. Right from the earliest Jewish non-participation through to the alleged fall off in {African} American interest at the present moment. However to say that boxing did not suffer from, at the very least, a dip in form, would be inaccurate. In the 1950's and early 1960's boxing did suffer badly from an image problem. Hell, the early 1990's were shit too.

PS Charley Powell was another of the big athletic footballers who tried to make the transition. He failed. No chin, apparently. I am still convinced at a lot of guys KNOW they would never make it as fighters, and so deliberately make a move into other sports. Later on, they try and reverse their decision and are found wanting.

 

Though therre have been international players in the past, the number has more than doubled in just the last decade, and to say there have been some players (like Petrovic and Sabonis) is like saying there's been no change in baseball because guys like Orlando Cepeda and Roberto Clemente were MVP's.

The overall numbers have changed dramatically.

Before, it was only the elite international players coming over, now you have international guys ranging from the best players on their teams to role players to bench players, and they've been MVPs, All-Stars, All-NBA, Rookie of the Year, etc.

Playoff performance doesn't have any impact MVP voting, since it's done before the playoffs (which you know), and like I said, Nowitzki had a very good argument for the award the year Nash won it the second time.

Regarding the "best" player in the NBA, maybe it will remain an American...but then nobody's arguing the best p4p boxer is from Europe/Eastern Europe.

 

It's basically as easy as "Too much risk,and too little reward"!!

Even though the movies are fictional,Rocky is pretty much what can,does and has happened to boxers ever since the artform began!! Work your balls off and take so much damage yet can as easily end up broke in the end!!

Not to mention,boxing is watched by about as many people who watch hockey nowadays. Which if you factor in on a global scale as compared to other sports,it's NOTHING!!

And as others have mentioned,no facilities and encouragement from peers or schools!!

 

It is obviously a combination of all the choices.

 

Why the hell would any MMA guy have been a boxer if they had the chance? This is ignorant. It's like saying that every football player would be a basketball player.....if they had the chance. Different sports dude.

 

Why wouldn't they? A top level boxer gets paid much more than those guys. Especially a heavyweight. It's just common sense. If they could be good boxers they would be. They can't so instead the are in MMA. Until MMA compensates properly they won't be stealing talent from any serious sport.

 

it's

It's George Bush's fault.

 

Why are there no good american heavyweights? Because EVERY SINGLE LAST FUCKING ONE OF THEM IS FAT AS FUCK!:flip: :flip: :shit: :flip: :doh: :shit: