Worst fight strategies

Here is the 12th round. Somewhere between like 55 seconds and 1min 10 seconds into the run time of the clip , you can see where Ike was holding his body weight up on the ropes.
Anyway , Ike did nothing after he got off the ropes. Some people act as though Ike started winning the round or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXZ-Bvq-Lwo

 

Agreed. But DLH spent the last 1:00-1:30 doing absolutely nothing. And though Quartey was out on his feet, he was coming forward and throwing (if you wanna call it that). Just not a 10-7 round.

 

I think it was a 10-8 round. However Ike didn't do anything after he got off the ropes. He threw maybe 1 meaningful punch that missed.
After he got off the ropes , the rest of the round was about even.

Check the clip I posted.

 

I agree. I've seen the clip a million times - was just making a point for those who think Oscar deserved 10-7 because Ike was using the ropes. :: Definite 10-8 but 10-7? Come on.

 

It's been years since I've watched this fight, but rewatching this clip, I;m convinced now more than ever before that it wasn't even close to being a 10-7 round

A 10-8 round without a knockdown is a round where Fighter A dominates from pillar to post, with Fighter B doing nothing in return but catching a beating. That didn't even come close to happening.

Not only did Oscar hardly fight back in the second half of the round, but literally spent the last 1:20 moving backwards, throwing maybe 5 punches in that stretch (landing one - a left hand, barely catching the side of Ike's head). You don't claim a 10-8 round (or 10-7 w/ one kd) by moving backwards for that long in a round.

Plus, Ike's defenselessness is greatly exagerrated. Yes, Oscar had him hurt. You can even argue that the ropes held him up enough to where if he were further away he'd have gone down again (I don't agree). But even in that flurry, Ike was still attempting to fight back, not just standing there defenseless. and was already landing in return as early as 1:50 left to go in the round.

Bowe-Golota II, Round 7 is a great example of a 10-8 round without the knockdown. You can even argue that Golota deserved a 3 point round in Round 5 of that fight.

Oscar's r. 12 against Ike wasn't even in the same ballpark.

 

I agree. Even with Ike using the ropes , if I was judging that fight I would have scored that round a 10-8.

If that was Calzaghe fighting instead of Oscar , they would have stopped it when Ike was against the ropes for sure.:: :blobbox:

 

if you scored it 10-8, then what are you disputing?

 

Jake , I never said it should have been a 10-7.
Check the thread. I always agreed it should have been a 10-8 round.
I only stated at one point that I thought if not for the ropes that its possible Ike would have went down again making it a 10-7.

Damm , you must be skipping over every other line in my posts.:doh: ::

 

WTF ::

I'm not disputing. I'm discussing the fight. ::
Isn't that why we even have a message board to discuss.
Can't we discuss and just talk about stuff as we remember it ? :dunno:

You know , just General conversation.

 

i don't understand why people think it's material at all that ODH moved backwards and did very little in the second half of the round. what difference does that make? the only way it matters is if Quartey did anything to turn the tide his way, or to "undo" what had been done to him in the first half of the round. And he did not. So it's a non-issue because it didn't diminish what ODH had done in the first half of the round, and it did nothing to add to Quartey's success.

And so that leaves you with a round in which one fighter knocked the other down, and then beat him against the ropes for an extended period of time, nearly illiciting a stoppage, and arguably knocking him down again had it not been for the ropes. Other than that, nothing happened in the round.

How is this not a 10-7 round?

 

I see that... but it just seems like you're taking an opposite stance from the rest of us (except for Double L and one or two others). I;m just wondering why, as in reading back, we agree on the round, just not on the score prior to the 12th

 

Come on Double, are you serious? He battered the guy along the ropes and knocked him down. 10-8. Then spent the next minute and a half posing...sooo, give him an extra point?

it's not about whether Quartey turned the tide or what Ike did. It's what oscar did to warrant another point deduction from Ike.

 

Because Ike was already fighting back as early as 1:50 left in the round, and whatever action there was from that point onward (which admittedly was very little) was all Ike, while Oscar spent the majority of it backing up and doing nothing at all.

If that's a 10-7 round, then a lot of fights need to be re-scored. I've always argued that Ward-Gatti, R9 was a 10-8 round, but I'd give in to an argument for that rd being 10-7 way before agreeing that this round was.

 

IMO to make it a 10-7 Oscar would have had to rock Quartey a couple of more times after the rope beating.
It's kinda expected that after a KD that the fighter who was KD'd will take somewhat of a beating after he gets up.
I would say thats already factored into the 10-8 scoring. A given so to speak.
Now if DLH rocked Quartey and buckled his knees etc after that , then I could see a "possible" argument for a 10-7.

 

btw, let me add in rewatching it, that had to be one of the worst endings for a fight of that magnitude.

 

agREED

 

Yes , I do think DLH actually won the fight.
I had it closer going into the 12th.

I was also debating the people who actually thought Ike really did anything after the rope beating.
Some people were making it seem Ike dominated Oscar after getting off the ropes.

 

gotcha. i stand corrected, then (though we respectfully disagree on how close the fight was going into the 12th)

Just curious, do you remember how you had it after 6? and then after 9?
I know some people that gave Oscar the 10th and 11th (whereas I gave him the 10th and Ike the 11th), therefore having him win by a point. I've never really disputed that, just the two official judges who had the fight off the table even without the 10-8 final round.

 

It's hard for me to answer as I haven't watched the whole fight in awhile.
I do remember having it even or Ike up by one going into the 12th.

 

then that goes in line with what i just posted, where i've never really disputed a card that had it 6-5 Ike going into the final round. I don't agree with it, but it's not unreasonable. From what I remember the 11th was the only real round that could be scored either way, the others being fairly easy to score (even the ones where not a lot happened)

 

ok. let's say the knock-down had never occurred. would you still give ODH a 10-8 round? i don't see how you couldn't.

 

80% of 0 is 0. so the fact that Ike was doing most of nothing doesn't count for shit. we may as well judge it as if it had been a 1 1/2 minute round. and if we do that, it's clear that not only did ODH knock Quartey down, but he also damn near stopped him on the ropes. i don't see how that isn't in effect two knock-downs. you said yourself the rope beating could arguably counted as a knock-down. right? well if that's the case, then count em - 1,2 knock-downs for ODH minus nothing accomplished by Quartey = 2 knock-downs for ODH = 10-7 !!!

 

If ODLH don't knock Quartey down that is a 10-9 round. It's not like fighters don't get there asses beat and still lose by 10-9 scores with no KD's.

 

The ref did not rule that the ropes were holding Quartey up. Whether that is right or wrong (subjective), it wasn't ruled that way which makes the round 10-8.

 

If the knockdown didn't occur, then Quartey isn't hurt either.

 

you can't though. because if the other 1 1/2 minute (Really 1:50) was scored on its own, then you have to give it to Ike, no questions asked. He landed more, dictated the pace... you can barely argue that Oscar was playing defense (he did appear to set a trap at one point, but that plan ended the moment he missed with the right hand).

Take away the OFFICIAL knockdown and it's a 10-9 round for Oscar, ONLY because of the flurry along the ropes. Any other action or pace set in the round was dictated by Ike. 1:50 is too far of a period in a round to ignore, or to allow the first 1:10 to override.

And watching that video with the music drowning out Lampley's orgasmic cries, Quartey was nowhere near as out of it as believed to be the case the night it happened. Also, I said you can argue that if the same punch lands in the center of the ring that did while Ike was so close to and eventually on the ropes, that maybe he goes down. I also said that I wouldn't agree with it, but it's certainly something up to debate - not cut and dry, like you pretend it to be.

 

Arturo Gatti trying to outbox PBF

 

i disagree. i think Quartey was badly hurt on the ropes, and by shots landed well after the punch he was knocked down by.

in fact, Quartey was more hurt when he was on the ropes than he was by the knock-down.

Quartey was knocked down and didn't do shit the rest of the round so either way it's a 10-8 round.

so the question is, does ODH get any credit for beating Quartey into a rag-doll for 30 seconds or not? i say he does.

 

It was a clear 10-8 round. ODLH did NOT beat him from pillar to post for a 10-7 round, sorry it just didn't happen. As Jake mentioned above, to much of the round was fought on even terms for that to be a 10-7 round. Like it or not there was no call of the ropes holding Quartey up, so there is no real argument for a 10-7 round.

 

Quartey was fighting back even at that moment, and more so once Oscar punched himself out. If he was that badly hurt for that long, why the fuck did Oscar literally spend the rest of the round going in reverse? Not even fighting in reverse, but backpedalling until the final bell.

As liberal as he is with his scorecards, I can't even see Max Kellerman scoring that round 10-7.