ZAB JUDAH: A CAREER MAULED BY MISMANAGEMENT

He was also fined and suspended afterwards.

 

If you don't have the mentallity of a fighter, it doesn't matter if you can run a 100 metre sprint in 9.7 seconds, you wont last long in the ring, Zab's fighting mentallity is just that he is a nasty punk with low intelligence, therefore he'll gladly scrap on instinct,..he is the sort that doesn't learn his lesson, when the opponent keeps coming and keeps hurting him with shots... MELTDOWN.. then after the fight, he's so stupid he forgets it ever happenned, he forgets that he looked like a bitch and disgraced himself,.. and due to his dazzling handspeed, so do the idiotic boxing fans who believe being a good athlete is all you need to suceed in the ring, which explains the multiple big fights he earns, taking advantage of fools is capitalism, so naturally, Judah is Bob Arum's best friend.

 

Zab coulda made a career fighting at 135 about as well as Roy coulda made a career fighting at 154.

Zab's best weight of course was 140, and had he stayed there he'd still be a top fighter in that division. He already owned Witter, and he'd have fucked up guys like Paulie, Bradley, Holt, Harris, ect. I dunno how well Hatton the hugger's chin woulda held up under Zab's 140 power.

At the end of the day, it can be said that Zab is a huge waste of talent, but he still had a very good career. Two division champ, Undisputed at 147, never beat a truly elite fighter but beat some good ones. Gave a good account of himself against an all time great in Floyd. Gave a pretty good go to Cotto in the early rounds(Cotto's low blows helped slowed him down), before getting beat down.

The loss to Tszyu can be excused since Tszyu was a great fighter, and since Zab can always argue the stoppage was early(though it wouldnt have mattered). The only true dark spot on Zab's career which he'll NEVER live down is allowing that sloth journeyman Bumlomir to beat him.

So overall Zab's career was a disappointment since many expected greatness outta him, but compared to normal fighters, he had a good go.

 

I tried giving this thread a chance, even after re-reading your opening post. But this sequence:

... is where you completely lost me. Walking around 7 lb. heavier than your fighting weight is hardly sweating down to make weight. Floyd wasn't even struggling to make 140, never mind 147. And it's not as if Zab walks around at 140 and pounds down Yodels and Hennessy in order to make welterweight.

The premise of his starting and staying at lightweight is assuming that he could've maintained weight for a number of years. The Shane Mosley one is a fair example on the surface, but one major factor you overlook is the Mac truck-sized gap in discipline between the two fighters. Zab decided that he wanted to fight at the same weight as when he was in the amateurs.

Also, given that he opted to only stay at 140 for 7 or so years, how long do you think he would've stayed put at 135? Shit, by the time he was ready to make his run, Shane Mosley was already moving up. What paydays awaited Zab at the weight in the early part of 2000?

As for your level-playing field and how he would fare against Pac, Barrera, JMM et al: He left 140 at a time when the division housed Tszyu, Mayweather, Hatton, Cotto and Gatti. Surely plenty of loot to be made, so why not stay then?

Furthermore, Zab himself went on record last week to say that 140 was not in his future, even with the knowledge that he was coming in as light as he was.

Nonsense. He made $1 million (before deductions, IRS and back-pay to King) for the Mayweather fight after coming off of a loss. He made $750,000 for the Cotto fight, an opportunity he "earned" by having not won a fight in over two years heading in.

The low paydays he made for the Spinks fights were for public display purposes only. Zab was up to his ass and then some in deadbeat dad debt, to which it was agreed upon that his official purse would be low enough so that only so much could be collected on it by his babies' mamas. The rest was paid under the table and/or through training expenses.

How could King both rape him AND be owed money? I swear, people are stuck on auto-pilot when it comes to King. It reminds me of a quote from the HBO movie on him: "Mike Tyson bites off a man's ear and they blame me for not feeding him."

Zab took advances on purses, to which King demanded to be paid back. Plenty of fighters do this; their problem is that they mistakenly believe it's not a loan requiring payback but bonuses to which they're entitled.

 

judah was actually a fluid boxer when he was w/ ronnie shields. he pretty much lasted this far w/ his talent and experience alone. how was his career mauled by mismanagement? he's gotten undeserved paydays one after another.

 

Poor mgmt? Gimme a break !!! The guy's had more title shots than ODH !!! Just because isn't a reflection of poor mgmt. It's a reflection of his weak heart and spastic tendencies when he's in the ring.....

 

So now its managements fault that Judah loses every semi-important fight he's in? Right.

Shit thread.

 

Most overrated fighter ever,.. in this very thread, we've had posters claim he could take all da belts at 140, had words used for him like 'got this far'.. how far?.. he's been granted seemingly endless oppurtunities with a 95% failure percentage, I think Emmanuel Augustus could capitalise on a higher percentage than that.

 

makes that win over your idol Tzsyu even less meaningful opcorn:

 

As a win, Judah's scalp was worth far more to Tszyu for the prize that came from it and the hype surrounding the fight itself. Judah himself, is quite simply; overrated shit.

 

Yep, in fact, i'd say it was only an impressive win for Tszyu and Baldomir. I wasn't impressed with the way Mayweather handled him. Cotto made it a very entertaining fight probably because of his shortcomings and Clottey took on damaged goods.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself...

As for the strange suggestion that he has somehow succumbed to mismanagement, well, suffice to say that I cannot think of any fighter off the top of my head who has had as many unwarrented title shots as Zab Judah. Hell, he lost again on saturday and there is a good chance that he will wander, face first, into ANOTHER title shot against Margarito!!!

Frankly, I think he has one of the best management set ups in the entire sport. Despite being woeful, he is never more than a punch away from winning a world title... :doh:

MTF

 

Let's say Zab fought Castillo at 135 anywhere between 2001-2004...he would have gotten his ass whupped.

Does anyone HONESTLY think Zab at 135 would have handled Chico's power? I don't.

135 wouldn't have helped him.

He's gotten as far as his talent and fragile mentality has allowed him to go.

 

I prefer steaming pile of feces but i suppose that's good enough.

 

Good point.

Solid-chinned fighters such as De La Hoya and Pacquiao had more problems taking shots when they were at lower weight classes, possibly weakening themselves to make weight, and took them better as they moved up. Cotto takes shots better at 147 than 140.

Judah was still chinny at a higher/more comfortable weight. If he made 135, he'd probably get dropped and hurt more often.

 

Interesting Topic...

REED Certainly Thinks Zab Judah would B Perceived DIFFERENTLY, had he Began his Career @ 135 & Stayed there Looooooooong Enough to Garner a Title or 2...Then Moved Up to 140...

DURING the Clottey Fight, REED Thought to Himself that Zab Needed to Move BACK DOWN to Jr. Welter...A Zab-Hatton Fight N Manchester would B a GOOD Sell...Zab-Malignaggi would B a GOOD Sell N New York...& Zab-Tim Bradley is an Interesting Matchup to REED...

The 147 Lb Division is STRANGE N the Sense that VERY FEW of it's Participants R NATURAL Welters...Guys like Zab, Floyd, Cotto, Shane & Berto R SMALL Welters (Though Shane, Cotto & Berto have THICKER Frames than Floyd & Zab)...Then U have Guys like Margarita, Cintron & Paul Williams who Clearly AREN'T Natural Welters...

N Terms of Top 10 Guys, Quintana, Clottey & Collazo R Probably the Only TRUE Welters...

Zab Certainly MAXIMIZED his Success @ 147...That Should have Been Looked @ as a SHORT TERM Weight Class All Along...



REED:mj:

 

Cotto had problems making 140, so if he's not a natural welterweight what is he?

 

Natural Cottoweight. 144

 

I think you're onto something.

De La Hoya found his at 150, Hopkins at 170.

Cotto's will be 144.

And now all is right in the sport of boxing.

 

:bears:

 

If REED Isn't Mistaken, Cotto WASN'T Using a Personal Trainer to the Degree that he Does NOW, while @ 140...

Cotto's WEIRD...He's THICKLY Built, but NOT Terribly Muscular...Shane Mosley is ALL Muscle...Shane & Cotto R on Opposite Ends of the Spectrum, w/Berto Being N the MIDDLE...They're All SHORT, THICK Welters w/Varying Degrees of Muscle...

All of them R Welters N Terms of ACTUAL Weight, but NONE of them have Prototypical Welterweight BODYTYPES...


REED:hammert:

 

I don't know about Berto, he's fought well above 147.

Mosley had the slightest frame of the three, IMO, but he probably did more - intentionally - to build his up, because of his power-boxing style and because he wanted to move up. He's short, but he's extremely strong for his size.

With Cotto, if he could've stayed at 140 longer he probably would have, but he really didn't have any choice. I agree with you his height/reach suggest he's a junior welterweight, as he's shorter than Mayweather and Mosley and about even with Judah.

 

There's a difference between having great management and having a fighter who is bad enough to nearly guarantee your fighter a victory against a name opponent. It's the same reason Mayorga keeps getting the shots he does. Don't think team Judah is on the phone convincing everyone to give them a shot. I'm sure it's other promoters coming to them with offers.

As for the thread, it was all a theory. I just threw the management thing in their to beef up the story a bit but I still think Judah does not belong in the welterweight class. People like Tam want to call it a shit thread, fine, be mature like that and crap on people who offer different insights on stuff, that'll really help improve the threads around here.

 

Although I can't agree that mismanagement was really the problem with Zab's career, I definitely agree with the spirit of this thread.

When Zab was younger, fighting at 140, he was as lean as they come. He's always looked like he put on extra fat to even get close to 147. He is not at all suited for that division.

Also, Zab's biggest problems at welter were (A) he could not hurt his opponents enough to KO/deter them and (B) he could not take "welter" punishment for 12 rounds and stay sharp. At 140, and especially at 135, these problems would be minimized. I think Zab could have been a devastating lightweight.

Nowadays 147 is a repository for middleweights who can kill themselves to make weight, and Zab just doesn't fit there. He really did himself a disservice moving up, I think he could have made 135 with little problems. Maybe in the end he made more money campaigning at 147, but in terms of his career he looks far worse than he might have. I think now it's too late to change, he is probably eyeing other money fights at 147. Too bad.

 

Thank you Outlander! You to Reed. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me but with most guys it was either like they didn't read the whole thing/understand my point, or they were just focusing on 1 point I made (usually the management).

In hindsight I must say that I should have just made my point rather than trying to write it more in an interesting article kind of way and incorporating the management angle.

 

Not for nothing, when the title of your article is "A Career Mauled By Mismanagement", naturally people will focus on the management aspect.

But even in discussing the weight, you're making the assumption that:
- Judah could even make 135
- Judah had the discipline to make 135 for an extended period of time,

With Shane Mosley there's at least a frame of reference. I'm sure people who followed the amateur scene closely enough could recall a time not too far removed from his pro debut when he was still competing at 139, 132 and even 125. Shane was around 21-22 when he turned pro, but at age 17 was still somehow making featherweight.

I remember Zab's amateur well enough to know that he was at 139 for what seemed like forever. Hell, I even remember Viv somehow shrinking down to compete as a junior lightweight (132) in the amateurs. Same with Paul Malignaggi. But as long as I can remember, Zab's been a junior welterweight.

What you're asking is that he make a weight that he hadn't seen since he was 14-15 years old. That's why most have a hard time grasping it - the scenario is hypothetical far more than it ever was a plausible option.

 

I understand the point you are trying to make, but ultimately it fails IMHO for the fact that, no matter what weight you put Zab Judah at or who he is managed by, he will fall short because he has some of the most deficient mental facilties of any top level fighter in history.

Now, of course and judging by his performance on Saturday night, not even those natural gifts with which he WAS bestowed; speed, agility, reflex etc are starting to wane quite badly, meaning that what you are left with is a mentally frail fighter who is hittable as hell. Welterweight or no, that does not make for a good combination!! ::

I don't think the thread is 'shit' at all- I just happen to disagree with you. Zab Judah did quite well really, considering his deep flaws. I'm not really sure what more he could have done?

MTF

 

Well that's fine....JAKE! Thanks for bringing us your straight out of the proboxing arena opinion.

You guys suck! This other site I pasted it on said they liked it and that they damn near wanted to put it out as an article. But here, at my site, I get no kudos, just facts. :bangh:

 

You shouldn't have posted it here.

Perhaps maybe use that site as a "tune-up", then work your way up to credible opposition?

Get proper management.

 

LB 4 LB: A WRITING CAREER MAULED BY MISMANAGEMENT